messianic prophecies

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
so another surrender then. you seem to be overwhelmed in this thread. everywhere you turn, you're getting smacked by the fists of reason.

There is certainly no reason coming from you. You continually spew nonsense like a volcano erupting. 😏

Originally posted by sumydid
The questions aren't idiotic. They are rhetorical questions stated in an arrogant way to score "points" and garner applause and praise from his fellow gang members.

Does this mean you believe the authors of the gospels all met and knew Jesus?

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
A Chassidic Rabbi Makes a Startling Discovery

My name is Moshe and I am a Chassidic Jew who has, from my youth, learned the words of our Holy Prophets, and has been puzzled by their meaning. Then, on the day before Yom Kippur, I contemplated the solemnity of the day and was made aware of the amazing meaning of G-d’s words. I recognized the fulfillment ...[text shortened]... Lam. 3:14
[39] Psalm 33:21
[40] Deut. 6:11,8:10,11:15
[41] Psalm 34:9
[42] Deut. 32:28)

A rooster is is not a person. The messianic prophecies must be fulfilled by a man, who is anointed for that purpose. Do you have any other person that has fulfilled as many messianic prophecies as is reported for Jesus and has been raised from the dead, and therefore, capable of possibly fulfilling all the messianic prophecies? I think Jesus is the only hope for both the Christian and the Jew to do it.. The Moslems have Satan the devil to fulfill their prophecies. 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
A rooster is is not a person. The messianic prophecies must be fulfilled by a man, who is anointed for that purpose. Do you have any other person that has fulfilled as many messianic prophecies as is reported for Jesus and has been raised from the dead, and therefore, capable of possibly fulfilling all the messianic prophecies? I think Jesus is the only h ...[text shortened]... istian and the Jew to do it.. The Moslems have Satan the devil to fulfill their prophecies. 🙄

point lost on the village imbecile. oh well, it wasn't for you anyway.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
its mentioned in Matthew 27:52-53

do you think the word 'saint' has been wrongly translated, or maybe added retrospectively to substantiate the catholic church?

is there any other mentions of this event in the bible?

(Matthew 27:52, 53) . . .And the memorial tombs were opened and many bodies of
the holy ones that had fallen asleep were raised up,  (and persons*, coming out
from among the memorial tombs after his being raised up, entered into the holy
city,) . . .

*Or, “they,” not referring to the “bodies.”


“The earth quaked, and the rock-masses were split. And the memorial tombs were
opened and many bodies of the holy ones that had fallen asleep were raised up,
(and persons, coming out from among the memorial tombs after his being raised up,
entered into the holy city,) and they became visible to many people.” (Matthew
27:51-53)

Catholic scholar Karl Staab calls this event that occurred at Jesus’ death “most
mysterious.” What happened?

Epiphanius and other early Church Fathers taught that the holy ones literally came to
life and went with the resurrected Jesus to heaven. Augustine, Theophylactus, and
Zigabenus believed that these dead ones received a temporary resurrection but
later returned to their tombs. The latter opinion, however, “did not gain wide
recognition,” comments scholar Erich Fascher.

When rendering Matthew 27:52, 53, many modern Bible translations give the
impression that a resurrection took place. Not so the New World Translation, which
points to the effects of an earthquake. Why?

First, whoever “the holy ones” were, Matthew did not say they were raised up. He
said their bodies, or corpses, were. Second, he did not say these bodies came to
life. He said they were raised up, and the Greek verb egeiro, meaning to “raise up,”
does not always refer to a resurrection. It can, among other things, also mean to
“lift out” from a pit or to “get up” from the ground. (Matthew 12:11; 17:7; Luke
1:69) The upheaval at Jesus death opened tombs, tossing lifeless bodies into the
open. Such occurrences during earthquakes were reported in the second century
C.E. by Greek writer Aelius Aristides and more recently, in 1962, in Colombia.

This view of the event harmonizes with Bible teachings. In 1 Corinthians chapter 15,
the apostle Paul gives convincing proof of the resurrection, but he completely
ignores Matthew 27:52, 53. So do all other Bible writers. (Acts 2:32, 34) The corpses
raised up at Jesus’ death could not have come to life in the way Epiphanius thought,
for on the third day thereafter, Jesus became “the firstborn from the dead.”
(Colossians 1:18) Anointed Christians, also called “holy ones,” were promised a
share in the first resurrection during Christ’s presence, not in the first century.
1 Thessalonians 3:13; 4:14-17.

Most Bible commentators have difficulty explaining verse 53, although several of
them suggest that verse 52 describes the opening of tombs by the earthquake and
the exposing of newly buried corpses. For example, German scholar Theobald
Daechsel gives the following translation: “And tombs opened up, and many corpses
of saints laying at rest were lifted up.”

Who were those that “entered into the holy city” a considerable time later, namely
after Jesus had been resurrected? As seen above, the exposed bodies remained
lifeless, so Matthew must refer to persons who visited the tombs and brought news
of the event into Jerusalem. Thus, the rendering of the New World Translation
deepens Bible understanding and does not confuse readers concerning the
resurrection.

source: Jehovahs Witnesses

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
(Matthew 27:52, 53) . . .And the memorial tombs were opened and many bodies of
the holy ones that had fallen asleep were raised up,  (and persons*, coming out
from among the memorial tombs after his being raised up, entered into the holy
city,) . . .

*Or, “they,” not referring to the “bodies.”


“The earth quaked, and the rock-masses were ...[text shortened]... anding and does not confuse readers concerning the
resurrection.

source: Jehovahs Witnesses

the 5 or 6 versions ive looked at all clearly state the bodies walk the streets of jerusalem.

an earthquake big enough to unearth bodies and the dead walking the streets would seem like a big bloody deal, im surprised that not only did nobody else other than matthew notice, but its not recorded in roman history.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
the 5 or 6 versions ive looked at all clearly state the bodies walk the streets of jerusalem.

an earthquake big enough to unearth bodies and the dead walking the streets would seem like a big bloody deal, im surprised that not only did nobody else other than matthew notice, but its not recorded in roman history.

I have always assumed that the bodies asleep in the grave came back alive. But I took a look at the Greek Text and it does not actually say the bodies were alive or that they walked into Jerusalem. The bodies did come out of the tombs and went into the holy city and appeared to many. It is not clear if they were alive again or by what means they entered the holy city. The holy city must be Jerusalem and I think most people would assume that it means they came back alive and walked into Jerusalem and appeared to many people alive and not as corpses as robbie says.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I have always assumed that the bodies asleep in the grave came back alive. But I took a look at the Greek Text and it does not actually say the bodies were alive or that they walked into Jerusalem. The bodies did come out of the tombs and went into the holy city and appeared to many. It is not clear if they were alive again or by what means they entered t ...[text shortened]... e and walked into Jerusalem and appeared to many people alive and not as corpses as robbie says.

either way its quite the spectacle. rather odd that nobody else other than matthew thought it worthy of a mention. looks like the news of the dead walking the earth amid violent earthquakes never made it back to rome for some reason.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
either way its quite the spectacle. rather odd that nobody else other than matthew thought it worthy of a mention. looks like the news of the dead walking the earth amid violent earthquakes never made it back to rome for some reason.

I am sure the Roman authorities would have thought them crazy and relieved them of their duties, if reported by anyone working for them. And any other report from someone like Matthew would have been ignored and would not have been taken seriously. I doubt any Roman historian would record such a thing unless he saw it himself and even then it would not be likely if he wanted to retain his credibility. They did not have tabloid newspapers back then dedicated to report on the supernatural, as far as I know.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
the 5 or 6 versions ive looked at all clearly state the bodies walk the streets of jerusalem.

an earthquake big enough to unearth bodies and the dead walking the streets would seem like a big bloody deal, im surprised that not only did nobody else other than matthew notice, but its not recorded in roman history.

yeah, i'm pretty sure a zombie infestation would have been noticed by a greater part of the world.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
the 5 or 6 versions ive looked at all clearly state the bodies walk the streets of jerusalem.

an earthquake big enough to unearth bodies and the dead walking the streets would seem like a big bloody deal, im surprised that not only did nobody else other than matthew notice, but its not recorded in roman history.

please try to make reference to the reasons why it could not have been a manifestation
of the dead walking.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
please try to make reference to the reasons why it could not have been a manifestation
of the dead walking.

"52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many."

king james.

"52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many."

english standard.

"2 and burials were opened, and many bodies of saints that had slept, rose up.
53 And they went out of their burials, and after his resurrection they came into the holy city, and appeared to many.[a]
Footnotes:"

wycliffe bible

"52 and the graves were opened, and many bodies arose out of them, bodies of holy men gone to their rest: 53 who, after his rising again, left their graves and went into the holy city, where they were seen by many."

knox bible

"52 The tombs were opened, and the bodies of many holy people who had died came back to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after he had come back to life, and they went into the holy city where they appeared to many people."

gods word bible.



all taken from biblegateway.com

Originally posted by stellspalfie
"52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many."

king james.

"52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs afte ...[text shortened]... y appeared to many people."

gods word bible.



all taken from biblegateway.com

these are translations of the text, they do not constitute reasons within themselves, do
they? I on the other hand provided reasons, with reference to the Biblical text and its
translation which demonstrates why these bodies could in no way be said to have been
animated with life.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
these are translations of the text, they do not constitute reasons within themselves, do
they? I on the other hand provided reasons, with reference to the Biblical text and its
translation which demonstrates why these bodies could in no way be said to have been
animated with life.

what? are you saying the bible is meaningless until somebody comes along and applies a reason?

im not saying your provided reasoning is wrong, im just giving examples that clearly state the dead are either now alive or are the walking dead. are you saying you want me to provide a 3rd party explanation of the examples ive given? or are you asking me to say why your quotes are wrong. its an old thread to me fella, im not even sure where i was going with it, im sure it was gonna turn christianity on its head though.
😀

Originally posted by stellspalfie
what? are you saying the bible is meaningless until somebody comes along and applies a reason?

im not saying your provided reasoning is wrong, im just giving examples that clearly state the dead are either now alive or are the walking dead. are you saying you want me to provide a 3rd party explanation of the examples ive given? or are you asking me ...[text shortened]... sure where i was going with it, im sure it was gonna turn christianity on its head though.
😀

i am saying that providing a translation without explaining it is meaningless. No you
provided various translations, you have as yet, provided no reasons.