1. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    04 Nov '05 08:06
    These are Early Christian doctrines expounded by Origen (http://www.iep.utm.edu/o/origen.htm -- courtesy of Halitose).

    Why have these sane, intelligent ideas seemingly been abandoned to all intents and purposes by modern Christians?
  2. Standard memberDavid C
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    04 Nov '05 09:301 edit
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    These are Early Christian doctrines expounded by Origen (http://www.iep.utm.edu/o/origen.htm -- courtesy of Halitose).

    Why have these sane, intelligent ideas seemingly been abandoned to all intents and purposes by modern Christians?
    At first blush, I'd say because they are exceedingly difficult words to spell correctly.

    A second speculation might be that the Nicene gangstas decided these particular Platonic principles might not fit the program of unredeemability if not converted. I'm sure Eusebius et al didn't like the idea of unpaid Restoration.

    Thirdly, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Please continue.
  3. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    04 Nov '05 11:05
    Originally posted by David C

    Thirdly, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Please continue.
    Hell is part of what this is about--Origen maintained that no such thing exists. Why do Christians exclude that part of the good news today?
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    04 Nov '05 11:07
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Hell is part of what this is about--Origen maintained that no such thing exists. Why do Christians exclude that part of the good news today?
    I think you know the answer to that already.
  5. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    04 Nov '05 11:09
    Originally posted by Starrman
    I think you know the answer to that already.
    I have my suspicions, but I'd like to hear from the faithful before they harden into convictions.
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    04 Nov '05 11:21
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    I have my suspicions, but I'd like to hear from the faithful before they harden into convictions.
    You hold the possibility of convictional diversion true?
  7. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    04 Nov '05 11:23
    Originally posted by Starrman
    You hold the possibility of convictional diversion true?
    This is scary, you're starting to sound like Origen. Look to your knackers...
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    04 Nov '05 11:26
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    This is scary, you're starting to sound like Origen. Look to your knackers...
    I've been reading Locke and his use of language has somewhat upset my sentence construction.
  9. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    04 Nov '05 11:33
    Originally posted by Starrman
    I've been reading Locke and his use of language has somewhat upset my sentence construction.
    Now that you mention it, you sounded more like bbarr.
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    04 Nov '05 11:41
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Now that you mention it, you sounded more like bbarr.
    Flatterer!
  11. Standard memberHalitose
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    04 Nov '05 19:58
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    These are Early Christian doctrines expounded by Origen (http://www.iep.utm.edu/o/origen.htm -- courtesy of Halitose).

    Why have these sane, intelligent ideas seemingly been abandoned to all intents and purposes by modern Christians?
    I wouldn't say that all his ideas have been abandoned by all modern christians. Some of his reasoning is quite appealing to me. The two that you specifically highlighted are real tough nuts to crack.

    Apokatastasis just doesn't have enough Biblical backing for me to jump healong into.

    Origen emphasised Metempsychosis as integral to Apokatastasis because you need the reincarnation process to progress towards purity and goodness. His was a melding of classical Greek thought and Christianity.

    I'm sure you know what the orthodox christian perspective has always been on reincarnation:

    Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
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    05 Nov '05 00:54
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Hell is part of what this is about--Origen maintained that no such thing exists. Why do Christians exclude that part of the good news today?
    Simply because Christ expressly affirmed the existence of Hell. So, no matter how well-intentioned Origen was, these doctrines were simply not Christian.
  13. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    05 Nov '05 16:411 edit
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    Simply because Christ expressly affirmed the existence of Hell. So, no matter how well-intentioned Origen was, these doctrines were simply not Christian.
    The root meaning of the English word "hell" simply means "the grave". Nobody disputes the existence of death.

    Jesus used figurative rather than literal language. Think of the parables. So what he (reportedly) said has to be interpreted. Consider, for example, the interpretation offered here:

    http://www.comparative-religion.com/articles/jesus_hell.php

    I have a sneaking suspicion that the idea of Hell kind of adds spice to your life, turns you on a bit...you want it to exist.

    You live in Error; you Gnow Gnothing.
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