Minority atheism

By the way dive, when is the last time you saw me making sweeping generalizations about theists?

Originally posted by Palynka
By the way dive, when is the last time you saw me making sweeping generalizations about theists?

I haven't seen it to be fair to you. And to be fair to other atheists I've not seen it often from the them either. But I'm not trying to flag "sweeping generalisations" as an issue.

Originally posted by divegeester
Why is it that atheism is so marginalised in global demographics? Apparently one study showed that only 2.5% of the worlds population would describe themselves as atheist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

I'm bemused.

This artical does not really support the argument made in the OP. For a start, the numbers may be far greater than 2.3% without even disputing the claims made in the source document:

"Worldwide Adherents of All Religions by Six Continental Areas, Mid-2005". Encyclopædia Britannica. 2005.

* 2.3% Atheists: Persons professing atheism, skepticism, disbelief, or irreligion, including the militantly antireligious (opposed to all religion).
* 11.9% Nonreligious: Persons professing no religion, nonbelievers, agnostics, freethinkers, uninterested, or dereligionized secularists indifferent to all religion but not militantly so.

This is copied from the relevant footnote by the way and it already takes us to 14.2% which compares with the numbers supporting any specific religion. In completing my census form for the ongoing British census 2011, I was invited to state my religion with the option "none" but not the option "atheist." This makes sense, since atheism is not a religion.

In addition, we are told the following:

In Western culture, atheists are frequently assumed to be exclusively irreligious or unspiritual. However, atheism also figures in certain religious and spiritual belief systems, such as Jainism, Buddhism and Hinduism. Jainism and some forms of Buddhism do not advocate belief in gods, whereas Hinduism holds atheism to be valid, but difficult to follow spiritually.

Also

People who self-identify as atheists are often assumed to be irreligious, but some sects within major religions reject the existence of a personal, creator deity. In recent years, certain religious denominations have accumulated a number of openly atheistic followers, such as atheistic or humanistic Judaism and Christian atheists.

The source does not discuss the impact of communism in the USSR and in China in its attempt to destroy religion. It is clear that religion in the USSR aurvived all too well but even so I would be surprised if the percentage of atheists did not increase over the years.

In any case, the forum is largely used by English speakers, so maybe the proportion of non believers in this part of the world's population is more relevant. Many are Americans, and surveys consistently show that between a quarter and a third of Americans will believe or agree with almost anything at all. But the figures given are these:

The lowest rates of atheism were in the United states at only 4%, while the rates of atheism in the European countries surveyed were considerably higher: Italy 7%, Spain 11%, Great Britain 17%, Germany 20%, and France 32%.[16][126] The European figures are similar to those of an official European Union survey, which reported that 18% of the EU population do not believe in a god. Other studies have placed the estimated percentage of atheists, agnostics, and other nonbelievers in a personal god as low as single digits in Poland, Romania, Cyprus, and some other European countries,[128] and up to 85% in Sweden, 80% in Denmark, 72% in Norway, and 60% in Finland.[14] According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, 19% of Australians have "no religion", a category that includes atheists.[126] Between 64% and 65% of Japanese are atheists, agnostics, or do not believe in a god.

Now should I move to Japan or to Sweden? Hard to choose. Both are attractive.

Originally posted by divegeester
Why are you here Mr Minority? Are you trying to convert me? Don't you feel drawn to your own ilk, to seek out those who share your opinion? Or is it that your continued presence here demonstrates what the OP implies; i.e. you are what you behold: evangelists of a "cult" and here to gain disciples of atheism...

Or maybe people are just interested in discussion? It would be rather boring if only like-minded people would contribute.

And I have no idea what this minority thing has to do with anything, but if the Wikipedia article isn't enough for you, here's a bit more about statistics regarding atheism: http://tinyurl.com/atheismnumbers

Originally posted by Nordlys
Or maybe people are just interested in discussion? It would be rather boring if only like-minded people would contribute.

And I have no idea what this minority thing has to do with anything, but if the Wikipedia article isn't enough for you, here's a bit more about statistics regarding atheism: http://tinyurl.com/atheismnumbers

Another great artical but some pages not available alas. Even so, highlights for those unwilling to read it through:

In a list of 50 countries, the number of atheists is highest in Sweden. Japan is 5th, Britain comes 15th on the list (must try harder), the USA comes in at number 40 with maybe 3 to 9 per cent non believers. Atheism is "barely discernible" in Africa, the Middle East, South America and Asia (though Japan was number five on the list with 64% non believers).

With an estimated 500 to 750 million atheists or non believers in the World, it is the fourth largest group after Christians (2 Billion), Muslims (1.2 billion) and Hindus (900m). Quite a large minority it seems!

Originally posted by finnegan
Another great artical but some pages not available alas. Even so, highlights for those unwilling to read it through:

In a list of 50 countries, the number of atheists is highest in Sweden. Japan is 5th, Britain comes 15th on the list (must try harder), the USA comes in at number 40 with maybe 3 to 9 per cent non believers. Atheism is "barely discernible istians (2 Billion), Muslims (1.2 billion) and Hindus (900m). Quite a large minority it seems!

Indeed, when you unwrap the so called 97.5% non-atheists that Divegeester would have us think are believers in some God, one finds a good proportion of them happen to be non-believers who simply failed to state they were atheists!

Moreover, unwrap the ~2 billion Christians and collect into denominations noting that DG seems to lean more on the fundy side; he ends up squarely in the minority when it comes down to number of people who champion his belief in God vs number of people who don't believe in any God.

Prominant and outspoken atheists are generally so aggressively rebellious that they defy common sense and intuition about spirituality. In addition, the religions are entrenched in culture and political power and use this to influence the masses.

Originally posted by Agerg
Indeed, when you unwrap the so called 97.5% unbelievers that Divegeester would have us think are believers in some God, one finds a good proportion of them happen to be non-believers who simply failed to state they were atheists!

Moreover, unwrap the ~2 billion Christians and collect into denominations noting that DG seems to lean more on the fundy side; he ...[text shortened]... mber of people who champion his belief in God vs number of people who don't believe in any God.

Then there is the added complication expressed by FreakyKBH on a different thread on 10 March when he wrote: Allah has nothing whatsoever to do with the Living God as described in the Bible. Completely different entity entirely. So those 1.2 billion Muslims maybe ought to count with the atheists then, since whatever they believe in, he does not think it is God.

And don't forget the Romans thought Christians were atheists because they only believed in one God and refused to believe in all the other gods. Of course that was before idol worshippers stopped killing Christians and Christians started killing idol worshippers, an idea that also caught on for Islam, though until very recently Muslims did not take to killing Christians in the way Christians took to killing Muslims. But I am getting bemused now.

It is not relevant to divide theism into sub-religions and sub denominations; this OP is not about individual religions it's about theism and non-theism/atheism. It doesn't matter how you slice the statistical evidence (although I can clearly see why you wish to) - the evidence is that the vast majority of the worlds population are theists and atheists are therefore a minority.

The point of the OP is to examine the motivations of a minority group who choose to engage and challenge the majority's theistic belief and yet offer no alternative other than proposing that being a theist is irrational, deluded and chasing fairies. I'm therefore suggesting to atheists that if your position is so attractive why can't you convince more of the majority to abandon their faith?

I'm also proposing that the majority of human beings feel that there is more to life than logic and empirical evidence. If we only live by what we can see and what we can prove where would power of imagination be. Einstein saw this when he said "imagination is more important than knowledge"; I'm not saying he was a theist, but I am saying he was not trapped under the weight of logic and evidence to assume there is nothing more to this life than can be experienced by the 5 senses.

Originally posted by divegeester
It is not relevant to divide theism into sub-religions and sub denominations; this OP is not about individual religions it's about theism and non-theism/atheism. It doesn't matter how you slice the statistical evidence (although I can clearly see why you wish to) - the evidence is that the vast majority of the worlds population are theists and atheists ...[text shortened]... ic and evidence to assume there wasnothing more than can be experience by the 5 senses.

Quote: "I'm therefore suggesting to atheists that if your position is so attractive why can't you convince more of the majority to abandon their faith?"

Do you thing atheists are stupid? Based on history, would it really be a good idea to try to convince more of the majority to abandon their faith?

Originally posted by JS357
Quote: "I'm therefore suggesting to atheists that if your position is so attractive why can't you convince more of the majority to abandon their faith?"

Do you thing atheists are stupid? Based on history, would it really be a good idea to try to convince more of the majority to abandon their faith?

Yes it's a somewhat rhetorical position I agree; however it remains that if atheism was a clearly attractive mind-set then more people would hold to it.

Originally posted by divegeester
Yes it's a somewhat rhetorical position I agree; however it remains that if atheism was a clearly attractive mind-set then more people would hold to it.

What do you make of this?

Originally posted by JS357
What do you make of this?

sorry,what do you mean?

Originally posted by divegeester
sorry,what do you mean?

Maybe you've already said what you make of it. A summation is requested.

How many fence-sitters are there or those prone to polaristic change?

How many goto church or fill in "christian" on their surveys who dont really believe it?