10 Mar '09 23:36>
How come you never hear of a funeral for a miscarriage ?
Originally posted by ZahlanziThat's logical.
i am guessing it is a lapse on religious doodz part.
if abortion is a sin, then they consider the fetus a person. so when a person dies, one should have a funeral.
Originally posted by FabianFnasShe was not excommunicated. The doctors and her mother were.
That's logical.
In Brazil a young girl, 9 years of age, abused by her stepfather several years, became pregnant with a pair of twins. The doctors decide that her life was in danger if she was to give birth to the children, so they perfomed an abortion to save her life. By the high cardinals she is now excommunicated from the catholic church for life. T ...[text shortened]... her the logic of religion.
http://article.wn.com/view/WNATA662E404245944406050F858572E9B71/
Originally posted by PalynkaSorry, yes.
She was not excommunicated. The doctors and her mother were.
Originally posted by FabianFnasI agree, but this is the case of an over-zealous bishop and not the whole religion. Abortions made with (some) regularity in Brazil and other Catholic countries and still such (rare) excommunications are rare enough to be world news.
Is the christian church a good healthy place to develope a warm peronal belief in a loving god, represented by cardinals who punish the wrong people? I say no. That's not my kind of religion. This kind of religion is bad.
Originally posted by FabianFnasChristianity often faces difficulties in such situations. The real issue is whether or not you believe God had any part in the whole situation.
Is the christian church a good healthy place to develope a warm peronal belief in a loving god, represented by cardinals who punish the wrong people? I say no. That's not my kind of religion. This kind of religion is bad.
Originally posted by twhiteheadAs the cardinal and preaches do, they say "You do wrong, therefore you go to hell" as if they, the s.c. holy people, are judges, and the god himselves?
Christianity often faces difficulties in such situations. The real issue is whether or not you believe God had any part in the whole situation.
Some Christians believe that if everything was done to save both mother and child then it is up to God to decide who dies (if one must die) and not a human being.
On the issue of punishment by the Church, I th ...[text shortened]... are the worst and what the punishments should be. Especially if the Church preaches forgiveness.
Originally posted by FabianFnasWhy do you keep misrepresenting their stance? I also disagree with them, but there's no need to beat such strawmen.
Like I say "This girl should die", and the girl dies and I get away with it? Like the cardinals in Brazil did, and was proteccted by the Vatican.
Originally posted by FabianFnasthey are a special kind of christians. they refuse any responsibilities, refuse to make decisions for themselves because those decisions have already been made by people who were supposed to speak through divine grace. as such they do not see any case in which they can say "i am making this decision because it is right and if god chooses to punish me, i will accept the responsibility". this kind of christians have decided humanity doesn't need to make anymore decisions because god has given us the ultimate rulebook of right and wrong. anything that contradicts is simply sin on humanity's part.
As the cardinal and preaches do, they say "You do wrong, therefore you go to hell" as if they, the s.c. holy people, are judges, and the god himselves?
Some religious people says, "I have the right to do this in the name of god", and "the laws of god is higher than the laws of the people", and leave death and destruction in their path.
Practical, is ...[text shortened]... ccted by the Vatican. That's how much a life is worth. I'm glad I'm not a christian.
Originally posted by Zahlanzi"By my decision I kill a 9 year old innocent girl, if god disaproves he'll punish me." as the cardinal in Brazil perhaps said. No bold of fired was crushim him into the ground, so he was right, wasn't he? No, he wasn't!
they are a special kind of christians. they refuse any responsibilities, refuse to make decisions for themselves because those decisions have already been made by people who were supposed to speak through divine grace. as such they do not see any case in which they can say "i am making this decision because it is right and if god chooses to punish me, i wil ...[text shortened]... ate rulebook of right and wrong. anything that contradicts is simply sin on humanity's part.
Originally posted by PalynkaThese straw men are defended by the vatican, and ultimately by the pope. Pope says he is a man of god. That kind of god I don't want as my god. Nor should anyone else.
Why do you keep misrepresenting their stance? I also disagree with them, but there's no need to beat such strawmen.
Originally posted by FabianFnasThe Vatican didn't say that the girl should die, and I find it intellectually dishonest to say or imply otherwise, no matter how good your intentions are.
These straw men are defended by the vatican, and ultimately by the pope. Pope says he is a man of god. That kind of god I don't want as my god. Nor should anyone else.
By defending the vatican et al, then you defend the act.
Originally posted by Palynka"A senior Vatican cleric has defended the excommunication" according to BBC. The doctors saved the 9 years old girls life by aborting the two fetuses. I think the doctor know more than a cardinal from Rome who didn't ever even see the little girl. If the doctors didn't perform the abortion, then the girl would die. The cardinal thought the doctors and the mother had done something wrong by saving the girl. Meaning that it was better that the little girl died. That's my interpretation.
The Vatican didn't say that the girl should die, and I find it intellectually dishonest to say or imply otherwise, no matter how good your intentions are.
It's also sad that you think that defending the vatican in one issue equates to agreeing with the vatican on other issues. "Either with me or against me" is a false dilemma.