Originally posted by HalitoseWhich part of my statement do you want me to start with?
Very interesting; would you care to substantiate yet another of your sweeping statements? I've just about lost all respect for your debating skills.
The chauvanistic part is easy, show me one religion which has a female God.
Originally posted by twhiteheadThe part where Christianity “subjugates women to the point of making them on the same level as cattle” would be a great start. A quotation of Christ would be a great plus to drive home your point.
Which part of my statement do you want me to start with?
The chauvanistic part is easy, show me one religion which has a female God.
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Originally posted by HalitoseI see you misunderstood my post. I actually did not say that Christianity “subjugates women to the point of making them on the same level as cattle”
The part where Christianity “subjugates women to the point of making them on the same level as cattle” would be a great start. A quotation of Christ would be a great plus to drive home your point.
What I said was that was not a concept of Islam. I then went on to add that in terms of the attitude towards women Islam and Christianity are very similar.
[edit] Where I come from a good woman is worth at least 20 cows!
Originally posted by sonhouseWho are "they"? All muslims?
How can I count the ways: How bout this for one:
The blatant way they subjugate women to the point of making them
on the same level as cattle.
Do you not have any female Muslim friends who do something other than graze and give milk?
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Originally posted by Bosse de NageFirst, a preliminary note: I think that the Holy Spirit is referred to in the feminine in some parts of the NT (I remember reading something to that effect by Nemesio a while back).
Oh, good, something to debate. Shoot! (That is, fire away with the reasons, please).
Second note: One needs to be clear whether one is referring to the First Person of the Trinity or the Triune God when one says "God". A neutral pronoun is probably more appropriate for the latter (though I don't like calling God "It" ). I'm assuming we're talking about the former.
I think there are a few good reasons for referring to the First Person of the Trinity in the masculine. First, God is almost always referred to in the masculine when speaking through the prophets. This not just true of the "He said" verses, but also in terms of the imagery used (e.g. Hosea's bride). Second (not unrelated to the first), is the Christological and ecclesial angle. Christ was, of course, a man and the Church is referred to as "the Bride of Christ" (by Paul).
Third, the male pronoun reflects better (I think) the personal qualities of God such as his majesty, grandeur and power. From a catechetical perspective, it is easier to communicate the balance of justice, mercy and love that is God by using the term "Father".
And, of course, Christ Himself called God (and asked us to call God) "Father".
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Originally posted by dottewellEr, have you been to the middle east lately? I used to live there. I SAW how women were treated. One time we went there to study the muslim orphanage situation (this was a couple of years after we had finished a three year stint there working at Intel in Jerusalem).
Who are "they"? All muslims?
Do you not have any female Muslim friends who do something other than graze and give milk?
As you no doubt know, another cruel twist of islam is not allowing the adaption of orphans, but thats another story. We were at this muslim orphanage near Ramallah and the lady who ran the place had to hide one of the women who worked for her, right under our noses. These thugs came in, don't know any other way to describe them, Thugs of Islam, their god sworn duty was to find and kill this woman for the crime of adultery. It was later proven she did no such thing but if the head lady had not hidden her, she would have been dead, THEN proven innocent so don't EVEN tell me how fairly women are treated by muslims.
Do you think the male partner, who was also innocent, had these thugs after him? No, boys will be boys...