Originally posted by Proper Knob
Found it Thread 133220 page 9.

PK - I'm trying to ascertain what degree of evolution you think is possible. Do you accept that penguins derive from birds that could fly?

KJ - I don't know, maybe they did, never gave them much thought.
I imagine it'd be easier to lose an ability than to acquire one as unique as ...[text shortened]... to swimming.

KJ - Okay

And the conversation went on.........

He says he doesn't know at first; then with your persistence , okays
your statement. However, it does not seem clear to me that he agrees
with you 100% on this. There is no mention of what bird he evolved
from. What bird the penguin is supposed to have evolved from is what
I am curious to know. If what you say is true, it still appears like it
is adaptation to the environment and not evolution. So you seem to
think that either his body grew or his wings shrunk and turned into
flippers or something like that, I suppose.

Originally posted by RJHinds
He says he doesn't know at first; then with your persistence , okays
your statement. However, it does not seem clear to me that he agrees
with you 100% on this. There is no mention of what bird he evolved
from. What bird the penguin is supposed to have evolved from is what
I am curious to know. If what you say is true, it still appears like it
is ...[text shortened]... his body grew or his wings shrunk and turned into
flippers or something like that, I suppose.

He says he doesn't know at first; then with your persistence, okays your statement.

My persistence? Don't you mean my better explanation?! Anyway, he agrees with what i said.

However, it does not seem clear to me that he agrees with you 100% on this

Mr Jay 'okayed' my statement. What more do you want?

There is no mention of what bird he evolved from.

No one said there was.

What bird the penguin is supposed to have evolved from is what I am curious to know.

That is what Google is for.

If what you say is true, it still appears like it is adaptation to the environment and not evolution.

For the umpteenth time EVOLUTION IS ADAPTION TO THE ENVIRONMENT, how many more times do you have to be told!!!!!!

So you seem to think that either his body grew or his wings shrunk and turned into flippers or something like that, I suppose.

Bingo!!!!!

Originally posted by Proper Knob
On a thread not too long ago you accepted penguins evolved from a bird that could fly. Do you want me to dig it out?

Yes, I looked I didn't see anything where I came out and said, yes that was
how it happened.
Kelly

Originally posted by Proper Knob
You've avoided my question again.

You've said penguins evolved from a common ancestor that could fly, they now swim in the sea. You've also said that marine mammals [b]didn't evolve from land based mammals.

Why can a penguin evolve for life in the sea yet mammals cannot?[/b]

My point has been if they can mate and have off sping that means they are
of the same kind. That said, I think you took some statement of mine and have
run with it, making it sound like I said quite a few things.
Kelly

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]He says he doesn't know at first; then with your persistence, okays your statement.

My persistence? Don't you mean my better explanation?! Anyway, he agrees with what i said.

However, it does not seem clear to me that he agrees with you 100% on this

Mr Jay 'okayed' my statement. What more do you want?

There is no mention of w ...[text shortened]... s wings shrunk and turned into flippers or something like that, I suppose.

Bingo!!!!![/b]

"A penguin could have come from creature that could fly that was as far as I was
going, for all I know it always hung out in the water. I maintain it is easy to lose
an ability or feature or form than it is to aquire new ones. "

I believe on page 10 of the same debate you will find this.
I'm willing to say I don't know where it came from, you are the one that has
told me where it did come from, mainly due to the point of having wings I
believe was your reason.
Kelly

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]He says he doesn't know at first; then with your persistence, okays your statement.

My persistence? Don't you mean my better explanation?! Anyway, he agrees with what i said.

However, it does not seem clear to me that he agrees with you 100% on this

Mr Jay 'okayed' my statement. What more do you want?

There is no mention of w ...[text shortened]... s wings shrunk and turned into flippers or something like that, I suppose.

Bingo!!!!![/b]

I seem to hit home with my last statement. If you truely
believe that then why don't you just explain what happened
and why you believe it? Quit beating about the bush and
come out with it.

Originally posted by KellyJay
My point has been if they can mate and have off sping that means they are
of the same kind. That said, I think you took some statement of mine and have
run with it, making it sound like I said quite a few things.
Kelly

I asked you if you thought penguins evolved from birds that could fly, you said you weren't too sure as you hadn't really though about it. I then explained my position in further detail clarifying what i meant, you replied 'okay'. How exactly is that not agreeing with me? If you didn't agree with me, why not just say 'no'?!

What exactly have i run with? How exactly have i made it sound like you said 'quite a few things'?

Originally posted by RJHinds
I seem to hit home with my last statement. If you truely
believe that then why don't you just explain what happened
and why you believe it? Quit beating about the bush and
come out with it.

What are you talking about? Which last statement? What 'exactly' would you like to know?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
What are you talking about? Which last statement? What 'exactly' would you like to know?

The statement to which you replied "Bingo!!!!!".
What is that all about. Need a detailed explanation
if you have one. But I really don't think you know
what you are trying to say, since you keep beating
around the bush and asking silly questions like a child.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The statement to which you replied "Bingo!!!!!".
What is that all about. Need a detailed explanation
if you have one. But I really don't think you know
what you are trying to say, since you keep beating
around the bush and asking silly questions like a child.

since you keep beating around the bush and asking silly questions like a child.

Listen old man, don't a be a prick.

What exactly do you want to know?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]since you keep beating around the bush and asking silly questions like a child.

Listen old man, don't a be a prick.

What exactly do you want to know?[/b]

Forget it. You don't know anyway.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Forget it. You don't know anyway.

Ask me a direct question and i will attempt to answer it, if i don't know the answer i will tell you.

Throwing insults at me will get you no where, i'll merely insult you back.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Ask me a direct question and i will attempt to answer it, if i don't know the answer i will tell you.

Throwing insults at me will get you no where, i'll merely insult you back.

I believe you statred the insults on this thread with this statement:

"Thank goodness you and you ilk are not scientists. If you were we'd still be living in caves going for a dump in the bushes."

In response to another of my posts you give the following reply:

So you seem to think that either his body grew or his wings shrunk and turned into flippers or something like that, I suppose.

Bingo!!!!!

When you replied, "Bingo!!!!!" I asked you to quit beating about
the bush and come out with your belief about the so-called evolution of
the penguin. You then seemed to have gotten amnesia or something,
because you couldn't remember what you had said and didn't know
what I was referring to. Then, after a couple more probes, I got the
impression you really didn't know what you believed about the penguin.

Now you say to stop throwing insults and ask a direct question.
I hope I have refreshed your memory. If not, go back and read the
thread in order. Some of my questions are as followa:
1. If the penguin evolved from a flying bird, what bird was it?
2. How did the penguin get small flippers instead of feathered wings?
3. Was there two diffenent birds that mated to produce the penguin
or did a flying bird mate with something else and, if so, what was
it?

We need some ideas that make sense, otherwise, it becomes just
another evolutionary fairy tale.

Originally posted by RJHinds
1. If the penguin evolved from a flying bird, what bird was it?
2. How did the penguin get small flippers instead of feathered wings?
3. Was there two diffenent birds that mated to produce the penguin
or did a flying bird mate with something else and, if so, what was
it?

We need some ideas that make sense, otherwise, it becomes just
another evolutionary fairy tale.

1. Evidence from paleontology indicates that the penguins and the order Procellariiformes (albatrosses, shearwaters, and petrels) had a common origin. Both groups are represented by well-defined fossils dating to about 50 million years ago.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/449815/penguin/48931/Evolution-and-classification

2. Because the penguins with wings kept drowning and getting eaten by killer whales and stuff.

3. An isolated group of flying birds living in the arctic and related to the albatross slowly lost wings over many generations because big feathery wings aren't useful for swimming.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
1. Evidence from paleontology indicates that the penguins and the order Procellariiformes (albatrosses, shearwaters, and petrels) had a common origin. Both groups are represented by well-defined fossils dating to about 50 million years ago.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/449815/penguin/48931/Evolution-and-classification

2. Bec ...[text shortened]... slowly lost wings over many generations because big feathery wings aren't useful for swimming.

The following is a quote I found on Penguin sncestry:

Penguin ancestry beyond Waimanu remains unknown and not well-resolved by molecular or morphological analyses. The latter tend to be confounded by the strong adaptive autapomorphies of the Sphenisciformes; a sometimes perceived fairly close relationship between penguins and grebes is almost certainly an error based on both groups' strong diving adaptations, which are homoplasies. On the other hand, different DNA sequence datasets do not agree in detail with each other either.