1. SubscriberFMF
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    22 Nov '18 05:49
    John Allen Chau's life came to a tragic and brutal end: he was murdered, no two ways about it. Our thoughts ought to go out to his family and those who knew him. Mine do.

    Was he a Christian martyr? Or was he disrespectful and foolhardy man?
  2. Devonshire
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    22 Nov '18 06:35
    @fmf said
    John Allen Chau's life came to a tragic and brutal end: he was murdered, no two ways about it. Our thoughts ought to go out to his family and those who knew him. Mine do.

    Was he a Christian martyr? Or was he disrespectful and foolhardy man?
    I saw a bit about this last night on my phone but didn’t get chance to read up. It crossed my mind at the time as to wether he was an evangelist of some sort.

    He was foolhardy in my mind. People who act like this are driven from a base of pride; they think they are somehow special and have a special mission from God when in fact they don’t.

    I couldn’t help make the slightly tawdry but worth mentioning comparison in to some of the self professed preachers in this forum who arrive on the shorline with their special message form God, and as the lyric goes, they end up with “arrows in their hat”.
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    22 Nov '18 12:13
    @divegeester said
    I saw a bit about this last night on my phone but didn’t get chance to read up. It crossed my mind at the time as to wether he was an evangelist of some sort.

    He was foolhardy in my mind. People who act like this are driven from a base of pride; they think they are somehow special and have a special mission from God when in fact they don’t.

    I couldn’t help make th ...[text shortened]... with their special message form God, and as the lyric goes, they end up with “arrows in their hat”.
    Are you opposed to the great commission?
  4. Devonshire
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    22 Nov '18 14:171 edit
    @dj2becker said
    Are you opposed to the great commission?
    No. I just see people like you who believe in eternal hell wasting the precious time in here and posting sanctimonious questions like you have here instead of getting out there and actually doing something.

    Why don’t you pop over to the Andaman and Nicobar Islands and do everyone a favour?
  5. Subscriberrookie54
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    22 Nov '18 14:34
    @fmf said
    John Allen Chau's life came to a tragic and brutal end: he was murdered, no two ways about it. Our thoughts ought to go out to his family and those who knew him. Mine do.

    Was he a Christian martyr? Or was he disrespectful and foolhardy man?
    tis not murder if the rattlesnake shakes his tail before he strikes...
    he jumped into the pit voluntarily...
  6. Standard memberDeepThought
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    22 Nov '18 16:06
    @fmf said
    John Allen Chau's life came to a tragic and brutal end: he was murdered, no two ways about it. Our thoughts ought to go out to his family and those who knew him. Mine do.

    Was he a Christian martyr? Or was he disrespectful and foolhardy man?
    Since the islanders are the legitimate authority on their island and seem to regard any outside intrusion as an act of war, this does not constitute murder.
  7. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    22 Nov '18 16:21
    @FMF

    Was quite disturbing to read, but he shouldn't have been there.
  8. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    22 Nov '18 18:57
    @fmf said
    Was he a Christian martyr? Or was he disrespectful and foolhardy man?
    Are they mutually exclusive?
    Certainly he was foolhardy.
    From my perspective disrespectful too but he would not have seen it like that.
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    22 Nov '18 21:04
    @deepthought said
    Since the islanders are the legitimate authority on their island and seem to regard any outside intrusion as an act of war, this does not constitute murder.
    It was in accordance with or permissible by Indian law? I don't think so. The fact that India may not take action even in their own jurisdiction would not be the point.
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    22 Nov '18 21:08
    @wolfgang59 said
    Are they mutually exclusive?
    Certainly he was foolhardy.
    From my perspective disrespectful too but he would not have seen it like that.
    He would have known that he was abusing his visa and therefore lying when he applied for it. Disrespectful in that sense.
  11. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    23 Nov '18 05:59
    What's most interesting is that he fully knew the dangers that were going on. Indeed, he had been shot at with arrows and chased out before; he had had his canoe destroyed and swam back to the boat (apparently a very athletic fellow), yet he persisted.

    He even had strategies for engaging them.

    He apparently fantasized about going to the North Sentinelese for a long time, and had always had something of an obsession with the tribal, and likewise as extremely devoutly religious.... He was an EMS (Emergency Medical Services) worker, as well... And it seems to be a real adventurer and wanderer.

    When he was shot full of arrows, he kept walking towards them, peacefully, I guess knowing that he would not be able to get away (his canoe had been gone at this point) and hoping that, somehow, this last gesture would have fixed the problem...

    Certainly, all of this is incredibly romantic.

    If we were to think about it in terms of logic and rationality... There was a very high chance it would end like this. He was also breaking laws... But his friends recount that he valued these specific people's salvation immensely, and that he talked about it like he would be fully ready to assimilate into their tribe if they would accept him. He didn't actually want to change their way of life beyond introduction of is religion -- of course, that is a big change, yet it also shows that he fully respected their mode of existence.

    I guess I would conclude by saying that it was not the best move, and there are some elements to it that are also otherwise problematic... YET... It was exceedingly brave, and a sort of profound gesture.

    If a man risked his entire life to come to tell me about Islam or Hinduism, no, I would not change my beliefs... and I would think there is something perhaps presumptive in his attitude that I need to be saved or that I need to change... Yet. I would fully respect that and would hope for him the very best.

    And I think any society which would respond with overt violence towards someone that came with gifts and came raising their hands out to shake is in the wrong. Maybe there is a legitimate fear of invasion or erasure, but still, in this circumstance, that society is backwards and wrong, IMO.
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    23 Nov '18 06:56
    @philokalia said
    What's most interesting is that he fully knew the dangers that were going on. Indeed, he had been shot at with arrows and chased out before; he had had his canoe destroyed and swam back to the boat (apparently a very athletic fellow), yet he persisted.

    He even had strategies for engaging them.

    He apparently fantasized about going to the North Sentinelese for ...[text shortened]... r of invasion or erasure, but still, in this circumstance, that society is backwards and wrong, IMO.
    Disrespectful and foolhardy? Do you agree?

    Do you see him as a Christian martyr?
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    23 Nov '18 07:02
    @philokalia said
    his friends recount that he valued these specific people's salvation immensely, and that he talked about it like he would be fully ready to assimilate into their tribe if they would accept him. He didn't actually want to change their way of life beyond introduction of is religion -- of course, that is a big change, yet it also shows that he fully respected their mode of existence.
    Do you suppose he was going to tell the tribe about what he believed his god figure was going to do them if they did not adopt his beliefs and if they stuck with their own god figure instead?
  14. Devonshire
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    23 Nov '18 07:02
    @philokalia said
    What's most interesting is that he fully knew the dangers that were going on. Indeed, he had been shot at with arrows and chased out before; he had had his canoe destroyed and swam back to the boat (apparently a very athletic fellow), yet he persisted.

    He even had strategies for engaging them.

    He apparently fantasized about going to the North Sentinelese for ...[text shortened]... r of invasion or erasure, but still, in this circumstance, that society is backwards and wrong, IMO.
    In short, he was an idiot.
  15. Devonshire
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    23 Nov '18 07:091 edit
    @fmf said
    Do you suppose he was going to tell the tribe about what he believed his god figure was going to do them if they did not adopt his beliefs and if they stuck with their own god figure instead?
    Perhaps his pitch would have gone something like this:

    Christian: Hey lonely Island dudes, I bring a message of great joy for you and all mankind.

    Islanders: gtf off of our private property or we will eat your liver

    Christian: but god has sent his son to die for you so you can go to heaven...

    Islanders: is he you? Because you are going to die...

    Christian: no, I am a mere messager that he loves you so much he will die for you

    Islanders: we have our own god who is greater than your god

    Christian: if you reject my god he will burn you in hell for eternity

    Islanders: hahahahahaahhhaaAHHHHHHH you are free to go man of great mirth.
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