My Briefest Responses

Originally posted by Rajk999
So 'doing' is optional.

Man must become God in life and in nature but not in the Godhead.

For man to become God God must wrought Christ into man's being.

The major work is for God to work the living Person of Jesus into your being - mind, emotion, will, conscience, and finally body.

God's eternal purpose is to work Himself into man that God and man become one mingled union.

The acceptable work for God is the work that comes out of Christ being worked into your personality.

Originally posted by jaywill
Man must become God in life and in nature but not in the Godhead.

For man to become God God must wrought Christ into man's being.

The major work is for God to work the living Person of Jesus into your being - mind, emotion, will, conscience, and finally body.

God's eternal purpose is to work Himself into man that God and man become one min ...[text shortened]... ceptable work for God is the work that comes out of Christ being worked into your personality.

Jaywill, these last few very short posts show why people get frustrated with what you say even though you seem to try your best to be brief. You ramble on without ever answering the question.

The answer (which you are clearly evading) is simple:
Doing is not optional, because it is a demonstration of your faith.

All that you have said about God working through Christ into man is correct, I agree. But at the end its up to those who claim to believe to demonstrate that God is actually working though them and show their faith by their works. This is the essence of what was taught by both Christ and Paul. What I wonder, makes it so difficult for many Christians to say that?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Jaywill, these last few very short posts show why people get frustrated with what you say even though you seem to try your best to be brief. You ramble on without ever answering the question.

The answer (which you are clearly evading) is simple:
Doing is not optional, because it is a demonstration of your faith.

All that you have said about Go ...[text shortened]... t by both Christ and Paul. What I wonder, makes it so difficult for many Christians to say that?

Of course you have a point.

More important than doing is dying.

It is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me.

Originally posted by jaywill
Of course you have a point.

More important than doing is dying.

It is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me.

So you agree that the basic recipe for salvation is :
1. Belief & Faith in Jesus
2. Baptism or Being born again into Christ (dying as you put it) or 'putting on' Christ.
3. Works and acts of selfless love to demonstrate that faith

All three are necessary .. 1&2 only are insufficient.

Would you agree ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
So you agree that the basic recipe for salvation is :
1. Belief & Faith in Jesus
2. Baptism or Being born again into Christ (dying as you put it) or 'putting on' Christ.
3. Works and acts of selfless love to demonstrate that faith

All three are necessary .. 1&2 only are insufficient.

Would you agree ?

Yes, yes, yes.

Let's move on from the so-called "basic recipe of salvation".

There is so much more after the elementary foundation of becoming a Christian. Don't you agree ?

With someone like yourself I would like to talk about the eternal purpose of the Triune God to produce New Jerusalem.

Originally posted by jaywill
Yes, yes, yes.

Let's move on from the so-called "basic recipe of salvation".

There is so much more after the elementary foundation of becoming a Christian. Don't you agree ?

With someone like yourself I would like to talk about the eternal purpose of the Triune God to produce New Jerusalem.

Yes I would not mind discussing the other things, but hold that thought for a while. There are other issues pertaining to the basics which I neither understand nor agree with :

1. The concept of being saved the moment you are 'born again'
2. The claim that once you are considered saved you are guaranteed salvation.

So lets not get too long winded as we have been through this before. In a couple short sentences can you justify your belief in those 2 points?

Originally posted by Rajk999
So 'doing' is optional.

A person 'born of God' cannot but perform good works, because:

(1) faith in Jesus Christ is the result of God's power at work (John 6:29)
(2) our good works are the result of God's power at work (Philippians 2:13)

Faith and works have the exact same origin: God's power.

Therefore, you can't possibly have faith in Christ without good works.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
A person 'born of God' cannot but perform good works, because:

(1) faith in Jesus Christ is the result of God's power at work (John 6:29)
(2) our good works are the result of God's power at work (Philippians 2:13)

Faith and works have the exact same origin: God's power.

Therefore, you can't possibly have faith in Christ without good works.

And if you are an invalid unable to even move, in a coma for the rest of your life, are you damned to hell then? Even inside that persons head there are no thoughts so how could he or she have unpure thoughts or sin?
For instance, suppose a fetus is born but with no brain but still alive, beating heart, etc., is this infant born into sin? You would never be able to communicate the message of Christ to this 'person?'.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
A person 'born of God' cannot but perform good works, because:

(1) faith in Jesus Christ is the result of God's power at work (John 6:29)
(2) our good works are the result of God's power at work (Philippians 2:13)

Faith and works have the exact same origin: God's power.

Therefore, you can't possibly have faith in Christ without good works.

The bottom line is that salvation is Jesus. It is not Jesus plus anything. It is just Jesus.

What opportunity did the believing theif on the cross have to demonstrate any good works ?

We should never forget that it is a living Person the Way and the Truth and the Life.

This was meant for Raj999. I miss read the author.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
A person 'born of God' cannot but perform good works, because:

(1) faith in Jesus Christ is the result of God's power at work (John 6:29)
(2) our good works are the result of God's power at work (Philippians 2:13)

Faith and works have the exact same origin: God's power.

Therefore, you can't possibly have faith in Christ without good works.

Ok thanks, but do you also agree with these two :

1. The concept of being saved the moment you are 'born again'
2. The claim that once you are considered saved you are guaranteed salvation.

Originally posted by jaywill
The bottom line is that salvation is Jesus. It is not Jesus plus anything. It is just Jesus.

What opportunity did the believing theif on the cross have to demonstrate any good works ?

We should never forget that it is a living Person the Way and the Truth and the Life.

This was meant for Raj999. I miss read the author.

Well youre confusing the issue now Jaywill.
Take it slowly and imagine Im a 10 yr old trying to understand what salvation is about.

We agreed earlier with :

1. Belief & Faith in Jesus
2. Baptism or Being born again into Christ (dying as you put it) or 'putting on' Christ.
3. Works and acts of selfless love to demonstrate that faith.

Now you say "The bottom line is that salvation is Jesus. It is not Jesus plus anything. It is just Jesus." Both cant be right.

As for the thief on the cross, chances are that he was not baptised either. Would that mean that baptism is unimportant as well? There are exceptions to every rule and trying to use that exception to claim the rule does not apply is dishonest.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Yes I would not mind discussing the other things, but hold that thought for a while. There are other issues pertaining to the basics which I neither understand nor agree with :

1. The concept of being saved the moment you are 'born again'
2. The claim that once you are considered saved you are guaranteed salvation.

So lets not get too long winded as ...[text shortened]... hrough this before. In a couple short sentences can you justify your belief in those 2 points?

I was saved. I am in the process of being saved. I llok forward to being saved.

The regeneration of the spirit is the saving of the spirit. It is instantaneous.

The salvation of the soul is the transformation of the soul. It is not instanteous but continues throughout the Christian life.


The salvation of the physical body is instantaeous. It occurs at the twinkling of an eye when the transfiguration of the body.

So salvation is related to the three parts of man's being - spirit, soul, body (1 Thess. 5:23)

Originally posted by Rajk999
Ok thanks, but do you also agree with these two :

1. The concept of being saved the moment you are 'born again'
2. The claim that once you are considered saved you are guaranteed salvation.

Yes to both (1) and (2), dear Rajk999.

Whoever is "born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:13) is already saved because it is the will of the Father that none should be lost, which Christ attests to here:

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:37-40).

Paul expounds upon this here:

"Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns?" (Romans 8:33-34).

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Yes to both (1) and (2), dear Rajk999.

Whoever is "born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:13) is already saved because it is the will of the Father that none should be lost, which Christ attests to here:

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me [b]I will by no ...[text shortened]... against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns?" (Romans 8:33-34).[/b]

Sorry to repeat myself but lets put it simply.
All Christians who have covered what we spoke of earlier:

1. Belief & Faith in Jesus
2. Baptism or Being born again into Christ (dying as you put it) or 'putting on' Christ.

.... automatically gets :

1. saved the moment they are 'born again'
2. a guaranteed salvation.

Correct ?