1. Et in Arcadia ego...
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    10 Oct '05 17:281 edit
    At the time of going to press, the thread entitled:

    'Do Jews go to Heaven?'

    had received roughly one tenth of the responses of the controversial:

    'Do animals go to Heaven?'.


    Mopsy wopsy, pet rabbit and private detective, must be rubbing her paws together and fancying her chances in the playoffs.

    Funny old world.
  2. Standard memberwib
    Stay outta my biznez
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    10 Oct '05 18:12
    Originally posted by sjeg
    At the time of going to press, the thread entitled:

    'Do Jews go to Heaven?'

    had received roughly one tenth of the responses of the controversial:

    'Do animals go to Heaven?'.


    Mopsy wopsy, pet rabbit and private detective, must be rubbing her paws together and fancying her chances in the playoffs.

    Funny old world.
    Perhaps we have more animals here than Jews?
  3. Colorado
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    10 Oct '05 19:041 edit
    It's all about accepting God into your heart. If a Jew (or a Hindu etc.)does this then I believe God accepts him/her into Heaven.

    I think God probably just accepts animals into Heaven by default. I'm not sure if it's the same Heaven that we go to though.
  4. Standard memberDavid C
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    10 Oct '05 19:12
    Originally posted by The Chess Express
    It's all about accepting God into your heart. If a Jew (or a Hindu etc.)does this then I believe God accepts him/her into Heaven.

    I think God probably just accepts animals into Heaven by default. I'm not sure if it's the same Heaven that we go to though.
    It's all about accepting God into your heart. If a Jew (or a Hindu etc.)does this then I believe God accepts him/her into Heaven.

    Do you mean they have to accept 'Jesus'? Because I'm pretty certain that Jews and Hindus have accepted their own god already. And they're probably pretty certain they're going to 'heaven' and you're not.
  5. Colorado
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    10 Oct '05 20:202 edits
    Originally posted by David C
    [b]It's all about accepting God into your heart. If a Jew (or a Hindu etc.)does this then I believe God accepts him/her into Heaven.

    Do you mean they have to accept 'Jesus'? Because I'm pretty certain that Jews and Hindus have accepted their own god already. And they're probably pretty certain they're going to 'heaven' and you're not.[/b]
    This is where I differ from the church. Jesus was the Christ and I believe it is this Christ consciousness that we can achieve. Buddha, Krishna, etc, these guys were the Christ as well.

    It's difficult for me to believe the guys who say "believe the way I do or burn in hell for all eternity." For one, there are 100's of branches of Christianity alone that believe the other guy is doomed, so it's sheer stupidity.

    Two, I don't believe that God would create a person who has no chance of finding him. In another words, create them just to burn in hell.

    Three, the punishment wouldn't fit the crime. A fair, just God would not sentence somebody to an eternity (as in trillions of years and then it goes on forever) of burning based on a few years here on Earth. None of that makes any sense, and even the guys who believe it can't explain it. I know, I've asked them.

    Jesus said that we will do greater things than he did. I believe those who have achieved what Jesus did can.
  6. Standard memberwib
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    10 Oct '05 20:291 edit
    Originally posted by The Chess Express
    This is where I differ from the church. Jesus was the Christ and I believe it is this Christ consciousness that we can achieve. Buddha, Krishna, etc, these guys were the Christ as well.

    It's difficult for me to believe the guys who say "believe the way I do or burn in hell for all eternity." For one, there are 100's of branches of Christian ...[text shortened]... hat we will do greater things than he did. I believe those who have achieved what Jesus did can.
    You keep making points like those and the Catholics are gonna accuse you of heresy. 🙂
  7. Standard memberRemoved
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    10 Oct '05 20:43
    Originally posted by The Chess Express
    This is where I differ from the church. Jesus was the Christ and I believe it is this Christ consciousness that we can achieve. Buddha, Krishna, etc, these guys were the Christ as well.

    It's difficult for me to believe the guys who say "believe the way I do or burn in hell for all eternity." For one, there are 100's of branches of Christian ...[text shortened]... hat we will do greater things than he did. I believe those who have achieved what Jesus did can.
    You didn't ask me. I don't believe in eternal burning. And those who never hear the gospel will be judged by OT law.
  8. Colorado
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    10 Oct '05 22:53
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    You didn't ask me. I don't believe in eternal burning. And those who never hear the gospel will be judged by OT law.
    Ok, I haven't heard this from a Christian yet. What's your scoop on Hell? How and why does the OT judge people who have not heard of the gospel?
  9. Colorado
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    10 Oct '05 23:01
    Originally posted by wib
    You keep making points like those and the Catholics are gonna accuse you of heresy. 🙂
    They probably have 😕
  10. Standard memberRemoved
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    10 Oct '05 23:16
    Originally posted by The Chess Express
    Ok, I haven't heard this from a Christian yet. What's your scoop on Hell? How and why does the OT judge people who have not heard of the gospel?
    It is simply bible logic. In the OT people were judged right? I don't mean believers, I mean unbelievers. Since they don't know Christ, those of the OT and NT, then they are still under law.

    Rom 7:4
    4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another-- to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
    (NKJ)

    If one does not accept/know Jesus...they are still married to the law. Of course this is not very promising, since "all have sinned..."
    As far as hell...
    To burn forever, you need "eternal life".

    I Jn 5:12
    12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
    (NKJ)

    You would need life to burn forever....furthermore...

    John 3:16
    16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
    (NKJ)

    According to this verse...unbelievers "perish".
  11. Colorado
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    10 Oct '05 23:452 edits
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    It is simply bible logic. In the OT people were judged right? I don't mean believers, I mean unbelievers. Since they don't know Christ, those of the OT and NT, then they are still under law.

    Rom 7:4
    4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another-- to Him who was raised f ...[text shortened]... ot perish but have everlasting life.
    (NKJ)

    According to this verse...unbelievers "perish".
    This basically all goes back to the things that I pointed out above. You believe that all have sinned, so if a person doesn't believe in Jesus they get sent to hell (by way of the OT). If a baby dies before he/she hears about Jesus, poof, fire and torment. If an old man who has never heard the name Jesus before, but has come to know God through his own religion dies (we'll call him a Hindu), poof, the big weenie roast.

    Basically your position is no different than what I mentioned except that you don't think hell is forever because God erases souls from existance.

    Logic can be used to explain anything.

    "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life."

    If not having the son is death, and we are to take that literally, than there should be no unbelievers right? All the ones who are alive now who don't know about Jesus would have to be dead. If you say that God gives them a chance to find him, than he gives them life even without the son.

    Sin is the death. Sin keeps us away from God. The idea is to choose God instead of sin. If we go as far as we can, God carries us the rest of the way. This includes babies.
  12. Standard memberRemoved
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    11 Oct '05 00:16
    Originally posted by The Chess Express
    This basically all goes back to the things that I pointed out above. You believe that all have sinned, so if a person doesn't believe in Jesus they get sent to hell (by way of the OT). If a baby dies before he/she hears about Jesus, poof, fire and torment. If an old man who has never heard the name Jesus before, but has come to know God through hi ...[text shortened]... ead of sin. If we go as far as we can, God carries us the rest of the way. This includes babies.
    ?????????

    If not having the son is death, and we are to take that literally, than there should be no unbelievers right?

    Wrong. It means they have no life after this life. It means they go to hell, but then they perish there, and cease to exist.
  13. Colorado
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    11 Oct '05 00:30
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    ?????????

    [b]If not having the son is death, and we are to take that literally, than there should be no unbelievers right?


    Wrong. It means they have no life after this life. It means they go to hell, but then they perish there, and cease to exist.[/b]
    That's the way you choose to interpret it, probably because somebody told you you should.

    Anyway, believe as you will, peace.
  14. Standard memberRemoved
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    11 Oct '05 00:38
    Originally posted by The Chess Express
    That's the way you choose to interpret it, probably because somebody told you you should.

    Anyway, believe as you will, peace.
    Ditto.

    🙂
  15. Standard memberRemoved
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    11 Oct '05 00:43
    Originally posted by The Chess Express
    That's the way you choose to interpret it, probably because somebody told you you should.

    Anyway, believe as you will, peace.
    This verse speaks of "future tense" for satan.

    Ezek 28:17-18
    17 "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings, that they might gaze at you.
    18 "You defiled your sanctuaries by the multitude of your iniquities, by the iniquity of your trading; therefore I brought fire from your midst; it devoured you, and I turned you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who saw you.
    (NKJ)

    Ashes are the byproduct of burning.....🙂

    BTW....I could say the same thing...you believe what you believe because someone told you this is what is meant....except it contradicts the nature of God's goodness....Peace.
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