New Church

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Swedenborg 🙄

An idle question: Once you've grasped the Golden Mean, what's all the fuss about Jesus? Why have a church at all?

Baby steps, Bosse. You have to wean 'em off of it slowly.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Saw an ad for newchurch.org here on RHP, so thought I'd take a look.

Here's the intro from their website:
[quote]The New Church is a new Christianity that provides a clear path to happiness and addresses your questions about God, love, and life after death with answers that make sense. The teachings are immediately practical and deeply spiritual: it stianity often voiced on these forums are not an issue with the New Church.

Thoughts?

Emanuel Swedenborg was an occultist who claimed to have special divine revelation from God. Further, he claimed to be able to freely visit heaven and hell, and speak to demons and spirits. Even more damning, he believed in a works-based salvation. Yikes. I suppose he might appeal to those with New Age intellectual pretensions, but personally I wouldn't let one of his books inside my front door.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Cheap salvation? Are you serious? No wonder your theology fails so miserably! The salvation which was wrought for ALL mankind was by no means cheap. It was the most costly purchase ever made in the history of man.

AND, as if that wasn't enough, if it were so cheap, if it were so easy for man to grasp, why is there such resistance to this 'cheap' gra ...[text shortened]... to look beneath and are instead content to live superficially, such reality is lost on them.

Do you really need to have it spelled out for you? Individuals desire to have their "salvation" guaranteed whilst doing as little as possible. So much so that they are more than eager to buy into the concept that they only need "profess belief". Yes, that's about as "cheap" as it gets for the individual for it costs himself next to nothing.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Emanuel Swedenborg was an occultist who claimed to have special divine revelation from God. Further, he claimed to be able to freely visit heaven and hell, and speak to demons and spirits. Even more damning, he believed in a works-based salvation. Yikes. I suppose he might appeal to those with New Age intellectual pretensions, but personally I wouldn't let one of his books inside my front door.

You sound like someone who must quickly cast a blind eye towards anything that might interfere with his ability to remain entranced by the lure of cheap salvation. Open your eyes. The light won't hurt you.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Do you really need to have it spelled out for you? Individuals desire to have their "salvation" guaranteed whilst doing as little as possible. So much so that they are more than eager to buy into the concept that they only need "profess belief". Yes, that's about as "cheap" as it gets for the individual for it costs himself next to nothing.

Honestly, even if it were spelled out for you, you still couldn't understand the words. You have zero idea about true spirituality, zero idea about what Christianity is all about--- about Who He is or what He did.

Reprehensible people such as yourself have been around since the beginning: you are Cain, whereas God wants Abel.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Honestly, even if it were spelled out for you, you still couldn't understand the words. You have zero idea about true spirituality, zero idea about what Christianity is all about--- about Who He is or what He did.

Reprehensible people such as yourself have been around since the beginning: you are Cain, whereas God wants Abel.

Evidently there is nothing more "reprehensible" to you than the thought of having to walk as Jesus walked. It's so much easier to believe that all you need do is cry, "Lord, Lord". However Jesus asks, "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?"

Originally posted by rwingett
It seems infinitely preferable to the horrors of orthodox Christianity. That salvation would be open to all good people, whether or not they believe in Jesus, seems self evident. Right action here trumps right belief.

I only hear that belief expressed here. Most Christian denominations do not each the need for an explicit belief in Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Have to agree with the "self responsibility" part. However it seems to me that, if anything, there is greater emphasis on Jesus: following His example, following His teachings. In short, walking His walk. Perhaps you meant that there isn't the concept of salvation being bestowed upon those who "profess belief" in Jesus.

So you think 'being happy' is a true example of following Jesus, as this church suggests?

Originally posted by rwingett
Didn't cost you a red cent, did it?

Only my pride.

Realising that I was in just as much dire need of God's grace as any murderer or drug peddler was , shall we say , a struggle.

Like many people I just loved to think that I was "good enough" and that Jesus didn't need to die for me(he died for other horrible people of course but not little ol me). Unfortunately the Holy Spirit put paid to that one once I realised that the any good in me was put there by God anyway.

So , in some ways it was totally free , but in others incredibly costly. I've never been the same since . God wrecked my life.

Originally posted by Conrau K
So you think 'being happy' is a true example of following Jesus, as this church suggests?

Seems like a loaded question - a double loaded question even. And pretty far off-topic at that. Is there a valid question somewhere underneath that?

Originally posted by knightmeister
Only my pride.

Realising that I was in just as much dire need of God's grace as any murderer or drug peddler was , shall we say , a struggle.

Like many people I just loved to think that I was "good enough" and that Jesus didn't need to die for me(he died for other horrible people of course but not little ol me). Unfortunately the Holy Spirit pu ...[text shortened]... ee , but in others incredibly costly. I've never been the same since . God wrecked my life.

So Jesus had a bad weekend for your sins. And all you have to do is sit on your sofa and wait for the rapture. Groovy.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Seems like a loaded question - a double loaded question even. And pretty far off-topic at that. Is there a valid question somewhere underneath that?

Never mind. Although I think it is ironic that this church endorses the kind of exemplarism which I mentioned earlier. Christ saved in how he lived; his death was salvific as a divine example of moral goodness.

Originally posted by Conrau K
Never mind. Although I think it is ironic that this church endorses the kind of exemplarism which I mentioned earlier. Christ saved in how he lived; his death was salvific as a divine example of moral goodness.

Much better. From what I can tell, I'd agree, though I don't see the "irony".

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You sound like someone who must quickly cast a blind eye towards anything that might interfere with his ability to remain entranced by the lure of cheap salvation. Open your eyes. The light won't hurt you.

You sound like someone who must quickly cast a blind eye towards anything that might interfere with his ability to remain entranced by the lure of cheap salvation.

----------ToOne----------------

At the risk of answering for Ephin , me thinks it is you who is entranced by the lure of "judgementiality".

In your scheme of things what happens to the guy who on death row who has murdered many? The drug dealer ? The seemingly hopeless drunk? Or the lifelong criminal? How are they brought to salvation?

Is it only the "good" who are saved? I seem to remember Jesus saying something about having come to save the sinners?

To say that salvation (by grace) is "cheap" is a distortion. Firstly , to say this is an insult to Jesus , whose life it cost.

Secondly , it costs you your pride because you are no longer able to think that you are "better" than others , or "more deserving" than those "horrible bad people". All that junk has to go along with the idea that all your good points and good deeds somehow "belong" to you , as if God should be grateful that you are a good person (lol).

The illusion of self sufficiency and trying to become righteous only off the back of your own efforts has to go too. The realisation comes that you are truely at the mercy of God's grace , and God's grace only.

Like all things truly spiritual , grace seems perverse at first glance, upside down and against our human values. We want to be able to judge others and "work" for our rewards. The idea of a "free" gift is offensive to us. We think "what's the catch Jesus?", but there is none. To accept the gift needs humility and a grateful heart.

Pride is the catch. we prefer to judge. We want to "earn" our salvation and then be able to judge those who we perceive as "less worthy". We want to think it is "ME" that is righteous , rather than God who is righteous. We want to possess our righteousness as if it were our own and think that God loves us because we are righteous (having forgotten that he put it there in the first place)

Whereas the reality is the other way round. God doesn't love us because we are righteous , we become righteous because he loves us first. God is love , and any theology that doesn't start with what God's love does for us is not putting God's love at the centre of things. Subtley , ToOne , your view places self righteousness at the centre and pushes God's love into the corner.

That's what pride does. It takes God's love and grace out of the equation and replaces it with "judgementiality".

Why are you so "unentranced" by God's love ?

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Emanuel Swedenborg was an occultist who claimed to have special divine revelation from God. Further, he claimed to be able to freely visit heaven and hell, and speak to demons and spirits. Even more damning, he believed in a works-based salvation. Yikes. I suppose he might appeal to those with New Age intellectual pretensions, but personally I wouldn't let one of his books inside my front door.

I dont see anything "damning" about what you've posted here.
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