New Testament on homosexuality

Originally posted by Jigtie
I agree with you that being homosexual is not a choice, but something much deeper and much
more profound. That doesn't necessarily mean it's genetic, but it could be I suppose. That's
besides the point though, as homosexuality not being a choice is not something you can hold
against the homosexual. It would be like saying that the colour of skin, colour ...[text shortened]... d He punish us for the sins of our forefathers?

What is Jesus' general message anyway?

I disagree.Homosexuality is most certainly a choice. One example is the american prison system.homosexuality is very common,yet most of these individuals did not practice homosexuality on the street. Most of them are married ,have visits from their wives and kids but still practice this deviant behavior when they go back to cell block. They engage in this out of choice, not by some un forseen force or attraction.

Originally posted by Jigtie
I agree with you that being homosexual is not a choice, but something much deeper and much
more profound. That doesn't necessarily mean it's genetic, but it could be I suppose. That's
besides the point though, as homosexuality not being a choice is not something you can hold
against the homosexual. It would be like saying that the colour of skin, colour ...[text shortened]... d He punish us for the sins of our forefathers?

What is Jesus' general message anyway?

From what I gather it is a message to love your neighbor. If homosexuality is not by choice then something seems to be a contradiction in the bible. There is a bunch of other stuff about salvation and prophesies and what not, but it does say that love is the greatest gift. A person punishes a child for things that the child did and wants them not to repeat it out of love. Very few parents would want to see a child have permanent torture or removed from existence for an attitude problem much less something they had no contol of. Of course I say that in ignorance as my kids are just now becoming teenagers.🙂

Originally posted by joe beyser
Its been about 20 years or so since I studied up on baldness. It is DNA related and in fact more and more folks get it. As far as whether or not you believe it without looking it up for yourself, I don't give a rats ass.

Nor do you give a 'rat's ass' for rigorous thought either apparently. That male pattern baldness is related to DNA is about the only sensible thing in your miserable excuse for a 'theory'. You have not demonstrated or provided a shred of evidence for:

1) More folks get bald than used to. (They might, due to lifespan issues of course.)
2) That baldness is evidence of deterioration of any kind.
3) That any change in the rate of baldness is not due to environmental factors with which genetics interacts.

In summary, you make absurd unevidenced claims. Perhaps you do this to bolster your prejudices?

Originally posted by Lord Shark
Nor do you give a 'rat's ass' for rigorous thought either apparently. That male pattern baldness is related to DNA is about the only sensible thing in your miserable excuse for a 'theory'. You have not demonstrated or provided a shred of evidence for:

1) More folks get bald than used to. (They might, due to lifespan issues of course.)
2) That baldness ...[text shortened]... ummary, you make absurd unevidenced claims. Perhaps you do this to bolster your prejudices?

Ok your right.

I disagree.Homosexuality is most certainly a choice.
No. Homosexual behaviour can be a choice.

Originally posted by Lord Shark
[b]I disagree.Homosexuality is most certainly a choice.
No. Homosexual behaviour can be a choice.[/b]

You sure showed a lot of references for that statement. 🙂

Originally posted by Lord Shark
[b]I disagree.Homosexuality is most certainly a choice.
No. Homosexual behaviour can be a choice.[/b]

So we have proof "it can be a choice".We all agree on that.
We have no proof it is genetic. Where does that leave us then?

Originally posted by joe beyser
..If homosexuality is not by choice then something seems to be a contradiction in the bible. ...something they had no contol of.

You are confusing two distinct and separate issues... the desire and the act. The desire to have sex is hardwired into all humans whether heterosexual or homosexual. Many acts of heterosexuality are sins and all acts of homosexuality are sins. In both cases you have no control over the desire but have complete control over the act.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
So we have proof "it can be a choice".We all agree on that.
We have no proof it is genetic. Where does that leave us then?

I don't know if there really is proof on the subject. I just know by observation that in one case it was not by choice. That is hardly statistically valid evidence. That is all I have. Others may have watched people grow up an saw a similar thing, but so far no one has said anything. If it is choice then it is sin by the bible. If it isn't choice then could it still be sin in the same sense we inherited Adam and Eve's sin? Why punish people for it in either case?

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are confusing two distinct and separate issues... the desire and the act. The desire to have sex is hardwired into all humans whether heterosexual or homosexual. Many acts of heterosexuality are sins and all acts of homosexuality are sins. In both cases you have no control over the desire but have complete control over the act.

That is right. But they have apparently have a sex drive. Where did that come from?

Originally posted by utherpendragon
I disagree.Homosexuality is most certainly a choice. One example is the american prison system.homosexuality is very common,yet most of these individuals did not practice homosexuality on the street. Most of them are married ,have visits from their wives and kids but still practice this deviant behavior when they go back to cell block. They engage in this out of choice, not by some un forseen force or attraction.

That is a poor argument. In prison it's rarely consensual when a man allows himself to be
dominated sexually by another. It's more about power and control.

People whom are heterosexual are heterosexual even in prison settings. I think you're confusing
homosexuality with the act of same sex intercourse. Homosexuality is more than merely having
sex with someone of the same gender. Consider yourself. You may have a certain preference in
women, finding blondes more attractive, maybe perky tits and what not. Your physically more
attracted to certain kinds of women. Same thing here. Consider if you grow up and already in
your early teens you realise that nothing happens when you see a woman (with the exception of
more masculine looking women perhaps), but when you see certain types of men... whooo-hooo.
Is that really a choice?

Addition: I see the distinction between homosexuality and the act has already been made.

Originally posted by Jigtie
That is a poor argument. In prison it's rarely consensual when a man allows himself to be
dominated sexually by another. It's more about power and control.

People whom are heterosexual are heterosexual even in prison settings. I think you're confusing
homosexuality with the act of same sex intercourse. Homosexuality is more than merely having
sex wit ...[text shortened]... men perhaps), but when you see certain types of men... whooo-hooo. Is that
really a choice?

I agree with that. Homosexuality is more than a sexual preference. It is part of the make up a person. There are other visible traits that go along with it in some cases. That doesn't mean they deserve less consideration as a person as anyone else. I have seen problems in the military, but everywhere else they do well. They are just as capeable in life as anyone.

Originally posted by joe beyser
I agree with that. Homosexuality is more than a sexual preference. It is part of the make up a person. There are other visible traits that go along with it in some cases. That doesn't mean they deserve less consideration as a person as anyone else. I have seen problems in the military, but everywhere else they do well. They are just as capeable in life as anyone.

Of course they are. The only real difference lies in the sexual preferences. I've met men whom I was
certain was gay (judging from their feminine behaviour and emotional sensitivity 😳 ) only to find out
they're far from it. I've met other men whom I've never in my wildest dreams could have believed
were gay, and still: turns out they were. Same thing goes for women. You really can't tell unless they
play the stereotypical role and admits it in the open.

Originally posted by joe beyser
That is right. But they have apparently have a sex drive. Where did that come from?

All people have a sexdrive. Why are you singling out homosexuals for preferential treatment ?

Originally posted by Jigtie
That is a poor argument. In prison it's rarely consensual when a man allows himself to be
dominated sexually by another. It's more about power and control.

People whom are heterosexual are heterosexual even in prison settings. I think you're confusing
homosexuality with the act of same sex intercourse. Homosexuality is more than merely having
sex wit ...[text shortened]... ?

Addition: I see the distinction between homosexuality and the act has already been made.

In prison it's rarely consensual when a man allows himself to be
dominated sexually by another. It's more about power and control.

Thats not true. Rape does happen of course but, there is a lot of genuine relationships where they have "weddings"in the yard, wear rings,move in together ,etc . One acts masculine the other feminine. This is a choice. As warped as it may be in my opinion it is a choice.
In other incidences where it appears not to be by choice it is by enviromental conditioning. The way they grew up,certain factors,etc. But ultimatley you make the choice.Its not a natural act.Its not genetic and their is no proof that it is.
Homosexuality is more than merely having
sex with someone of the same gender.
That is news to me. Two men having intercourse is a homosexual act.plain and simple. If it is not,what is it then?