1. Dublin Ireland
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    31 Oct '12 14:05
    There is no God. There is only the common wisdom and intelligence of humanity.
    We must forget all forms of religion and work together as one human family using common sense and logic for a better more peaceful prosperous world. Religion only breeds hatred, war and division.

    Religion is only a con to raise money for certain elite groups of con men who prey on the vulnerable who have less hope to cling to. It does not matter if you are black, white, yellow or brown. We must forget religion and use our skills together as one to make a better peaceful world. And no I am not a communist.
  2. Account suspended
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    31 Oct '12 14:092 edits
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    There is no God. There is only the common wisdom and intelligence of humanity.
    We must forget all forms of religion and work together as one human family using common sense and logic for a better more peaceful prosperous world. Religion only breeds hatred, war and division.

    Religion is only a con to raise money for certain elite groups of co ...[text shortened]... use our skills together as one to make a better peaceful world. And no I am not a communist.
    empirical evidence for no god nil, the misuse of science and technology has brought the planet to
    the brink of destruction and here you are foaming about logic and common sense,
    when will you realise that our problems are spiritual in nature. Khmer rouge were
    atheists and killed more than a million people in their attempt to establish an atheistic
    state, are you denying the fact?
  3. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    31 Oct '12 14:22
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    There is no God. There is only the common wisdom and intelligence of humanity.
    We must forget all forms of religion and work together as one human family using common sense and logic for a better more peaceful prosperous world. Religion only breeds hatred, war and division.

    Religion is only a con to raise money for certain elite groups of co ...[text shortened]... use our skills together as one to make a better peaceful world. And no I am not a communist.
    What if you had a religion without a god?
  4. Dublin Ireland
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    31 Oct '12 14:30
    I am advocating a peaceful world where we all work together for the better of the planet and each other. you miss that point. I am not interested in your religion or your politics. how many people went to war in the name of religion and thought that GOD was on their side????
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    31 Oct '12 14:352 edits
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    I am advocating a peaceful world where we all work together for the better of the planet and each other. you miss that point. I am not interested in your religion or your politics. how many people went to war in the name of religion and thought that GOD was on their side????
    Its such a thoroughly spiritually myopic vision, how are you going to eradicate greed
    and corruption in this Godless utopia, you have not said. How many people have
    religions killed in comparison to the non religious, again, you have not said and for the
    record, i have not advocated my religion, nor my political stance.
  6. SubscriberSuzianne
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    31 Oct '12 14:35
    Originally posted by rwingett
    What if you had a religion without a god?
    You mean like capitalism?
  7. SubscriberSuzianne
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    31 Oct '12 14:38
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    There is no God. There is only the common wisdom and intelligence of humanity.
    We must forget all forms of religion and work together as one human family using common sense and logic for a better more peaceful prosperous world. Religion only breeds hatred, war and division.

    Religion is only a con to raise money for certain elite groups of co ...[text shortened]... use our skills together as one to make a better peaceful world. And no I am not a communist.
    Nice work.

    Whistling in the cornfield looks like morality, and there's no work involved. How lucky for you.

    Too bad you're wrong.
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    31 Oct '12 15:13
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    You mean like capitalism?
    Capitalism isn't a religion.

    People can cling to ideas like capitalism in a similar way to, and with a similar fervor,
    as they cling to ideas in religions.

    But that does not make capitalism a religion.

    It's an economic theory.


    The thing that makes a religion a religion and not anything else is a belief in some kind
    of afterlife/continuation after death of some sort. (and belief in some kind of rituals or
    observances or behaviors that alter your experience of that afterlife.)

    And yes despite their protestations otherwise, JW's fit into this, as do Buddhists.


    People talk about consumerism or shopping or capitalism being 'the new religion'.
    But it's a turn of phrase, it doesn't in any way mean that capitalism or shopping are
    religions.
  9. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    31 Oct '12 15:231 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    You mean like capitalism?
    I was thinking more like pantheism. Where you actually have a religion, but don't worship a transcendent god. Something that would provide a buffer against the collapse into cultural materialism while avoiding the pitfalls of contemporary religions.
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    31 Oct '12 15:24
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Nice work.

    Whistling in the cornfield looks like morality, and there's no work involved. How lucky for you.

    Too bad you're wrong.
    You do know how insulting and stupid you look when you claim that there is no such
    thing as secular morality don't you?

    You know that you don't need god for morality (in fact god gets in the way).

    The reason you know that (apart from the number of times we have explained it) is
    that you no longer burn women for being witches or stone people for being gay and
    no longer consider it moral to keep slaves.

    All of which is not just condoned but ADVOCATED in the bible.

    And don't pull "thats the OT" bullc**p because thats nonsense.

    You believe (allegedly) in the same god as the OT and even if he apparently has reformed
    since those times he still at least USED to advocate that.

    Which mens either you accept that morality is whatever god randomly declares it to be.
    In which case you have to say that ANYTHING could be moral if god said it was.

    Or that morality is independent of god and thus we have no need of god to determine what it is
    AND god is also bound by, and can be judged by that morality.


    Either way we skeptics and atheists win.

    If you claim that whatever god says is moral is moral then you are a monster.

    If you claim that god can't just declare something to be moral then you admit that we don't need
    god to determine morality, we can do it ourselves.
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    31 Oct '12 15:26
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I was thinking more like pantheism. Where you actually have a religion, but don't worship a transcendent god.
    Well what about pantheism?

    Is it any more true?

    Any more evidentially justified?

    Does it help promote rational evidence based thinking or faith based belief?

    Does it help with moral judgments in any way shape or form?

    Does it have any scientific or explanatory value?

    Is it in any way shape or form useful?

    No, then it's a pointless waste of time, and encourages dangerous sloppy thinking.
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    31 Oct '12 15:322 edits
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Capitalism isn't a religion.

    People can cling to ideas like capitalism in a similar way to, and with a similar fervor,
    as they cling to ideas in religions.

    But that does not make capitalism a religion.

    It's an economic theory.


    The thing that makes a religion a religion and not anything else is a belief in some kind
    of afterlife/continua a turn of phrase, it doesn't in any way mean that capitalism or shopping are
    religions.
    yes it does, science is a religion, people look to it to solve their problems with appeals
    to the God of science, they worship in the cathedrals of materialism, the universities of
    the system, they have luminaries and high priests which promulgate their doctrines,
    people like Richard Dawkins, they have mantras, E=MC^2, which people know but are
    want to explain in any real terms, only the initiated being able to do so, they have
    creation myths of pre biotic soups and life from non living matter, they have church
    fathers, Darwin and Nietzsche and faithful adherents who offer up incense to them on
    a daily basis,

    all hail the God of science, amen!
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    31 Oct '12 15:47
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    yes it does, science is a religion, people look to it to solve their problems with appeals
    to the God of science, they worship in the cathedrals off materialism, the universities of
    the system, they have luminaries and high priests which promulgate their doctrines,
    people like Richard Dawkins, they have mantras, E=MC^2, which people know but a ...[text shortened]... hurch
    fathers, Darwin and Nietzsche and faithful adherents, all hail the God of science, amen!
    Sigh. No science is not a religion, claiming otherwise is moronic.

    If I were you I would capitulate now because you will eventually as you always do when
    you are proven wrong.



    Science contains no god. period. Science is a method, not a supernatural being.

    There is no worship in science, there is nothing that is held sacred, other than the search for truth.

    We have no high priests, there are no opinions beyond challenge or reproach.

    We have no myths of any kind.

    Nothing is taken on faith. Everything can be challenged.

    We have no rituals, and we have no belief in an afterlife.

    Science is not a religion.
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    31 Oct '12 15:521 edit
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Sigh. No science is not a religion, claiming otherwise is moronic.

    If I were you I would capitulate now because you will eventually as you always do when
    you are proven wrong.



    Science contains no god. period. Science is a method, not a supernatural being.

    There is no worship in science, there is nothing that is held sacred, other than the ...[text shortened]... ged.

    We have no rituals, and we have no belief in an afterlife.

    Science is not a religion.
    Its a religion, claiming that its not is moronic.

    Science contains no Gods, pure straw, no one is saying that it does, science is a God itself.

    You have high priests, i mentioned one.

    You have myths, creation myths

    You were not there when the universe was created and are therefore relying on unobserved phenomena, in other words, an act of faith.

    No one said you believed in an after life, more pure straw.

    Science is in every sense a religion for some people.
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    31 Oct '12 16:16
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Its a religion, claiming that its not is moronic.

    Science contains no Gods, pure straw, no one is saying that it does, science is a God itself.

    You have high priests, i mentioned one.

    You have myths, creation myths

    You were not there when the universe was created and are therefore relying on unobserved phenomena, in other words, an act o ...[text shortened]... eved in an after life, more pure straw.

    Science is in every sense a religion for some people.
    You claiming something does not make it true.

    The reason I mentioned belief in an afterlife is that is one of the hallmarks and
    requirements of a religion.

    Science isn't a religion because it includes no gods and no belief in an afterlife.
    (apart from all the other reasons it's not a religion)

    Science includes no 'acts of faith' and claiming otherwise simply shows your ignorance of the topic.

    Science is in no sense a religion for any people.

    Feel free to continue to make yourself look stupid by claiming otherwise, it only helps my argument.
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