1. Standard memberDasa
    Dasa
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    03 Oct '11 20:201 edit
    It gives me no pleasure in revealing the falsity in false religion.

    However it must be done to show persons that there are no options when choosing religion.

    True religion is about the highest truth and the highest truth is not presented in all religion.

    Unless the highest truth is taught by religion then it is questionable.

    The greatest error taught by false religion is that Gods creatures may be slaughtered.

    Slaughtering Gods creatures will stop love of God being established in the heart - for the heart must be pure for love to take root.

    God will not become manifest in a dirty heart and dirty mind.

    True religion however cleanses the dirt from the mind and heart - allowing love to blossom.

    Therefore there are no options in choosing religion and this concludes that true religion is one - and is presented by Vedanta Sutra delivering the highest truth for the benefit of mankind.
  2. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    03 Oct '11 21:46
    Originally posted by Dasa
    It gives me no pleasure in revealing the falsity in false religion.

    However it must be done to show persons that there are no options when choosing religion.

    True religion is about the highest truth and the highest truth is not presented in all religion.

    Unless the highest truth is taught by religion then it is questionable.

    The greatest error taugh ...[text shortened]... one - and is presented by Vedanta Sutra delivering the highest truth for the benefit of mankind.
    We do have options/choices. Otherwise we wouldn't have free will.
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    03 Oct '11 21:56
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    We do have options/choices. Otherwise we wouldn't have free will.
    How do you know you have a free will?
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    03 Oct '11 22:06
    Originally posted by Dasa
    It gives me no pleasure in revealing the falsity in false religion.

    Well i can tell that is a lie.

    You just can't let people be happy with what they want to believe?

    Why did you want your username changed again?
  5. Standard membersumydid
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    03 Oct '11 22:12
    Originally posted by josephw
    How do you know you have a free will?
    LOL I was kinda thinking the same thing.

    And free will is a deeper subject than many people give it credit.

    Are we talking about full autonomy, for example.
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    03 Oct '11 22:15
    Originally posted by sumydid
    LOL I was kinda thinking the same thing.

    And free will is a deeper subject than many people give it credit.

    Are we talking about full autonomy, for example.
    I think there must be a difference between full autonomy and free will.

    I believe we have free will in as much as our environment will allow, but full autonomy would give us unlimited power.
  7. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    03 Oct '11 22:31
    Originally posted by josephw
    How do you know you have a free will?
    How do you know I dont? Or are you one of those that believe there is only the illusion of free will?
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Oct '11 22:34
    Originally posted by Dasa
    It gives me no pleasure in revealing the falsity in false religion.

    However it must be done to show persons that there are no options when choosing religion.

    True religion is about the highest truth and the highest truth is not presented in all religion.

    Unless the highest truth is taught by religion then it is questionable.

    The greatest error taugh ...[text shortened]... one - and is presented by Vedanta Sutra delivering the highest truth for the benefit of mankind.
    You said, "...there are no options when choosing religion."

    I agree with that for you must choose Christ.
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    03 Oct '11 22:38
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    How do you know I dont? Or are you one of those that believe there is only the illusion of free will?
    I try not to have illusions.

    Isn't it self evident that we have a free will?
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    03 Oct '11 22:39
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You said, "...there are no options when choosing religion."

    I agree with that for you must choose Christ.
    Great reply RJ.
  11. Standard membersumydid
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    03 Oct '11 23:08
    Originally posted by josephw
    I think there must be a difference between full autonomy and free will.

    I believe we have free will in as much as our environment will allow, but full autonomy would give us unlimited power.
    Well, no, I don't see how full autonomy could give us unlimited power, or maybe I don't have the context right.

    I have found that most people when they speak of free will, they are indeed talking about autonomy, i.e., we are a law unto ourselves and we, the human race, have no higher authority to answer to.

    I don't believe in autonomy either. Most secular folks do.

    Often times when the believer says we have free will, the nonbeliever will take issue with that.

    It is mankind's obsession with autonomy that got us into trouble in the first place. Adam and Eve could do anything they wanted. ANYTHING.. but one thing. Don't eat the fruit from that tree. 99.999% free will. But that wasn't good enough.

    Like some folks say including my brother just yesterday. If you are not 100% COMPLETELY free, then you are enslaved and held captive. Almost as if to say, if we can't do anything we want to matter what it is, then life isn't worth living.
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    03 Oct '11 23:291 edit
    Originally posted by sumydid
    Well, no, I don't see how full autonomy could give us unlimited power, or maybe I don't have the context right.

    I have found that most people when they speak of free will, they are indeed talking about autonomy, i.e., we are a law unto ourselves and we, the human race, have no higher authority to answer to.

    I don't believe in autonomy either. Most sec say, if we can't do anything we want to matter what it is, then life isn't worth living.
    "I have found that most people when they speak of free will, they are indeed talking about autonomy,
    i.e., we are a law unto ourselves and we, the human race, have no higher authority to answer to."


    Interesting, I usually hear it put the reverse, we have free will in the sense we are responsible for the actions we take.
    We have the autonomy to make decisions and face the consequences.

    If we had no free will in that sense we would not be responsible for any crimes we committed, as we wouldn't have
    the ability to not commit the crime.
    In the same way a computer program does what it was instructed to do and doesn't have any choice as to the outcome.
    In that instance if a computer program does something harmful, you blame the person who wrote the program, not the
    program itself.

    I believe we do have free will in the sense that we have responsibility for our actions and can chose to do good or evil,
    and then face the consequences of those choices.
    However I would add in the caveat that people with particular mental disorders or brain damage may not have this capacity,
    at least not in the same way.
    Which is why we differentiate the criminal, from criminally insane.


    However the feeling of free will, of making concious decisions is an illusion.
    In brain scans we can now 'see' the brain come do a decision, and then there is a detectable lag before the person becomes
    consciously aware of it.
    While this doesn't remove free will from the person as a whole, as the brain is making the decision, it does mean we are not
    making the decision consciously, our decisions are made subconsciously and then the conciousness is informed of what those
    decisions are.

    "Like some folks say including my brother just yesterday. If you are not 100% COMPLETELY free, then you are enslaved
    and held captive. Almost as if to say, if we can't do anything we want to matter what it is, then life isn't worth living."


    I would have to disagree with this position.
    The fact that we have boundaries on our freedoms does not remove the fact we have freedoms or free will.

    We have many limitations, we are bound by the laws of physics, by our anatomy, by our environment, and by other people.

    I might decide to try to kill you, you are unlikely to just let me, so you resist, and thus impinge on my ability to do whatever I want.
    And the example can be much less extreme.

    However the fact that you (or law enforcement) would try to stop me, and punish me for my acts, or attempted acts, this doesn't
    remove my free will to make the decision to attempt the thing.

    However having made the choice I then face the consequences of it.

    In the same way that if I decide to jump off a tall building because I want to fly, I have to face the consequence of gravity,
    and solid ground.

    The very essence of civilisation, and morality, is that we do things that benefit the collective of society, and limit our own freedoms.
    A good society will do this as little as possible, so as few freedoms are impinged as little as possible.

    But a society with no limitations on actions is no society at all.
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Oct '11 23:45
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    [b]"I have found that most people when they speak of free will, they are indeed talking about autonomy,
    i.e., we are a law unto ourselves and we, the human race, have no higher authority to answer to."


    Interesting, I usually hear it put the reverse, we have free will in the sense we are responsible for the actions we take.
    We have the au ...[text shortened]... e as possible.

    But a society with no limitations on actions is no society at all.[/b]
    IT IS NOT OUR BRAIN THAT MAKES THE DECISION. OUR MIND MAKES
    THE DECISION AFTER GATHERING INFORMATION STORED IN OUR BRAIN.
  14. Standard memberDasa
    Dasa
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    03 Oct '11 23:56
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You said, "...there are no options when choosing religion."

    I agree with that for you must choose Christ.
    Why would you accept a religion that allows the slaughter of Gods creatures and therefore love for God will not develop?
  15. Joined
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    03 Oct '11 23:56
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    IT IS NOT OUR BRAIN THAT MAKES THE DECISION. OUR MIND MAKES
    THE DECISION AFTER GATHERING INFORMATION STORED IN OUR BRAIN.
    PROVE IT!
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