1. Donationbuckky
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    23 Apr '10 19:23
    Why is it that God only offers his hand at helping those in suffering occasionally ? You hear about somebody praying for help with their marriage or with a bad cold, and God will sweep down, and help fix the problem. Then you hear about some child being burried alive ,and no God to the rescue. I can't figure it out. Has God decided to just leave us alone ,and let the chips fall where they may? I have prayed for help ,and felt I got it, but it seems that my petty problems would not warrent such help when others are in such a horrid state. I was watching the Tudors the other night, and was struck with the cruelty of the King at that time, and again wondered why God would allow such savage behavior if he could stop it. Why I ask ?
  2. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    23 Apr '10 19:35
    Welcome to the Problem of Evil. 🙂
  3. Donationbuckky
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    23 Apr '10 20:16
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Welcome to the Problem of Evil. 🙂
    You mean the evil in God ?
  4. Cape Town
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    23 Apr '10 20:31
    Originally posted by buckky
    Why is it that God only offers his hand at helping those in suffering occasionally ?
    God has a clause in which he refuses to provide proof of his existence. If he were to help people in a statistically significant way, then us mathematicians could prove he exists. Therefore he cannot help people more than would statistically happen naturally by chance.
    He also cannot help people in a way that would result in a detectable violation of the laws of physics. Which is why he never replaces missing limbs etc.
    You may think I am talking nonsense, but seriously think about it:
    1. God is supposedly capable of violating the laws of physics. ie omnipotent.
    2. God supposedly helps people.
    3. God never ever violates the laws of physics in a detectable way in order to help people.
    4. Most likely explanation: any such violation would constitute proof of his existence - which he does not want to give.

    So, however much God may help you, you could never ever give solidly convincing evidence that he has helped you, because that would constitute proof - which he does not give. ie we could never determine scientifically that you were actually helped by God.
  5. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    23 Apr '10 21:42
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    God has a clause in which he refuses to provide proof of his existence. If he were to help people in a statistically significant way, then us mathematicians could prove he exists. Therefore he cannot help people more than would statistically happen naturally by chance.
    He also cannot help people in a way that would result in a detectable violation of the ...[text shortened]... does not give. ie we could never determine scientifically that you were actually helped by God.
    Wow that's awesome thinking!
  6. Standard memberAgerg
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    24 Apr '10 00:3310 edits
    Originally posted by buckky
    Why is it that God only offers his hand at helping those in suffering occasionally ? You hear about somebody praying for help with their marriage or with a bad cold, and God will sweep down, and help fix the problem. Then you hear about some child being burried alive ,and no God to the rescue. I can't figure it out. Has God decided to just leave us alone ,and ...[text shortened]... e, and again wondered why God would allow such savage behavior if he could stop it. Why I ask ?
    I was chewing over this issue with Robbie Carrobie recently with my strategy being to show that there exist scenarios/events for which horrible outcomes for a collection of innocents can be averted only by an intervention on the part of the supposedly benevolent and omnipotent God (removing in this instance the "we humans are capable but because of our sinful ways choose not to" defence). I suspect the answers to this question you will get here shall be of the following ilk:

    - God loves all his creations + random scripture (devoid of thought non-answer)
    - God leaves it for us humans to change our sinful ways and in becoming closer to God, act is such ways as to alleviate the suffering ourselves (non-answer...already removed this defence)
    - Suffering is the result of sin and moral independence from God (non-answer...consider innocents such as babies starving in Africa)
    - You think God should micro-manage the set of all events that occur on earth and suspend natural laws etc...??? (evading the question, constructing a strawman, also non compatible with omnipotent)
    - random scripture (non-answer unless the scripture specifically details in unambiguous terms why God lets babies, say, suffer nasty fatal diseases or other nasty things etc...)
    - The lord works in mysterious ways (non-answer for which I substitute "dunno, tricky question but I prefer to blank it from my mind and carry on regardless" )
    - To maintain, as Twitehead pointed out, his shroud of mystique (incompatible with benevolent)
    - They're all going to some happy wonderland in the sky (what about those who *haven't found God"???...why is the extra suffering still virtuous?)
    - But god did intervene!!! he sent Jesus (supposedly himself) to die on a cross for our sins (non-answer...how does that (a) stop people from being massacred now?, say, and (b) how is the mentioned act in any way a noble thing to do?)

    There may be other 'answers' I've missed.
  7. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    24 Apr '10 13:19
    Originally posted by buckky
    Why is it that God only offers his hand at helping those in suffering occasionally ? You hear about somebody praying for help with their marriage or with a bad cold, and God will sweep down, and help fix the problem. Then you hear about some child being burried alive ,and no God to the rescue. I can't figure it out. Has God decided to just leave us alone ,and ...[text shortened]... e, and again wondered why God would allow such savage behavior if he could stop it. Why I ask ?
    Is it like saying why do the good die young?
    I think the answer lies in death itself, a realm that is beyond most people to experience.
    For example I knew a girl in highschool and on her graduation night she was fatally struck down bt a car. Why? I thought. She was clearly head and shoulders above everyone of her peers in every aspect. Why didn't God take one of those other a-holes?
    Then I thought perhaps it was time for her to be released from the suffering of this world as clearly she had lead a life that could be comprable to a genuine holy person without the slightest hint of pride. She was truly amazing. Who knows where she is now?
  8. Joined
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    24 Apr '10 13:45
    Originally posted by buckky
    Why is it that God only offers his hand at helping those in suffering occasionally ? You hear about somebody praying for help with their marriage or with a bad cold, and God will sweep down, and help fix the problem. Then you hear about some child being burried alive ,and no God to the rescue. I can't figure it out. Has God decided to just leave us alone ,and ...[text shortened]... e, and again wondered why God would allow such savage behavior if he could stop it. Why I ask ?
    Don't be fooled. Your questions and concerns are legitimate. The answer is simple, but not simplistic.

    My 7 year old son asked me this question just last night.

    "Dad, if God is good, then why does He kill people"?

    Pretty good for a 7 year old don't you think?


    Predicate your thinking about God with this very simple and basic foundation.

    God doesn't make mistakes. God isn't wrong.

    If you are unwilling to believe this or are unable to accept this truth, then you will never find the answers to your questions. Trusting God is the first step.
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    25 Apr '10 05:59
    Originally posted by josephw
    [b]God doesn't make mistakes. God isn't wrong. If you are unwilling to believe this or are unable to accept this truth, then you will never find the answers to your questions. Trusting God is the first step.[/b]
    I suppose one of the great intellectual disadvantages of being as devout or as certain as you appear to be, is illustrated by this answer of yours, and the probability that you simply do not realise that it does not answer the question at all.
  10. Pale Blue Dot
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    25 Apr '10 08:07
    "Jesus is always going for the big picture
    But he's always there to help us out of the little jams too"
  11. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    25 Apr '10 08:221 edit
    Originally posted by Green Paladin
    "Jesus is always going for the big picture
    But he's always there to help us out of the little jams too"
    Jesus is in a box-like sattelite , circling the earth doing hard-core penance
    He is a bhoddisattva,nothing more
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    27 Apr '10 01:12
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Jesus is in a box-like sattelite , circling the earth doing hard-core penance
    He is a bhoddisattva,nothing more
    Jesus is in Heaven
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    27 Apr '10 09:001 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    Don't be fooled. Your questions and concerns are legitimate. The answer is simple, but not simplistic.

    My 7 year old son asked me this question just last night.

    "Dad, if God is good, then why does He kill people"?

    Pretty good for a 7 year old don't you think?


    Predicate your thinking about God with this very simple and basic foundation.

    [b]Go h, then you will never find the answers to your questions. Trusting God is the first step.
    if you accept that god doesn't make mistakes you will understand why god never makes mistakes.


    God doesn't make mistakes. God isn't wrong.
    pretty bad for a 40-ish year old don't you think?
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    27 Apr '10 09:05
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    God has a clause in which he refuses to provide proof of his existence. If he were to help people in a statistically significant way, then us mathematicians could prove he exists. Therefore he cannot help people more than would statistically happen naturally by chance.
    He also cannot help people in a way that would result in a detectable violation of the ...[text shortened]... does not give. ie we could never determine scientifically that you were actually helped by God.
    he did intervene though. he supposedly made a very big flood, and stopped the son from circling the earth(giggle) and sent his son who did all manner of breaking the physics laws.

    my opinion is that god doesn't intervene at all because he already gave us all we need to know to live for ourselves. intervening now would simply make us follow jesus because of fear of an all-powerful being and that kinda defeats the purpose.

    we are on our own. we can make the world better or worse and god will sit and watch.
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