Originally posted by whodey And I did not mention Christians as a group, rather, I mentioned the prophets of the OT and Christ and his immediate disciples.
I think you will find that Christians did not start getting violent until the religion was politicized after Constantine made the religion so in order to further his own pursuits. Early Christians did not so much as fight back an ...[text shortened]... s helped the religion spread faster than if they had fought back and conquered their oppressors.
You mentioned "...God's message to manking". You did not mention any names.
Originally posted by whodey True, they did sacrifice animals which was a forshadowing of Christs ultimate sacrifice on the cross. In Biblical terms, life is in the blood and sin causes death, therefore, the blood is representitive of the life in the blood washing away the sin that causes death. As Christians we no longer have to sacrifice animals for this purpose because we have the b ...[text shortened]... phets of the OT? Do you know the history as to why any of the prophets in the OT were martyred?
In Biblical terms, life is in the blood and sin causes death, therefore, the blood is representitive of the life in the blood washing away the sin that causes death.
Creepy. 😲
You may not "have to sacrifice animals" these days, but you acknowledge that once upon a time this was the right course of action. The only way to escape this nasty ritual is to painfully murder the most perfect human being who ever lived (supposedly).
Creepy. 😕
No, Isaac was not sacrificed, but his father is not punished for trying. Instead he's held out like some kind of moral role model.
What exactly do you want to know? You started with vague questions that don't seem to be related to what you want to ask us. I answered them - every question of yours in this thread I believe - as clearly as I could but now you seem to be moving the goalposts.
Originally posted by whodey And I did not mention Christians as a group, rather, I mentioned the prophets of the OT and Christ and his immediate disciples.
I think you will find that Christians did not start getting violent until the religion was politicized after Constantine made the religion so in order to further his own pursuits. Early Christians did not so much as fight back an ...[text shortened]... s helped the religion spread faster than if they had fought back and conquered their oppressors.
As far as I can tell you're right about violence in early Christianity.
Sedition? Accroding to the Biblical text Pilate said he saw no reason to crucify him. Pilate simply gave into the will of the people who claimed that he spoke blasphemy, so according to the Biblcial text it he was not killed for sedition.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung [b]In Biblical terms, life is in the blood and sin causes death, therefore, the blood is representitive of the life in the blood washing away the sin that causes death.
Creepy. 😲
You may not "have to sacrifice animals" these days, but you acknowledge that once upon a time this was the right course of action. The only way to escape this nas n this thread I believe - as clearly as I could but now you seem to be moving the goalposts.[/b]
Yes, things related to sin and death are generally creepy because those topics are creepy all by themselves, however, it must be dealt with nonetheless.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung As far as I can tell you're right about violence in early Christianity.
Thanks. Yes Constantine ended the era of the early peace loving Christian church by conquering in the name of Christ. Ironically, he did not even convert to Christianity fully until his death bed. Therefore, I am not sure you can blame such violence inflicted in the name of Christ on "Christians" during the time of Constantine.
Originally posted by whodey Sedition? Accroding to the Biblical text Pilate said he saw no reason to crucify him. Pilate simply gave into the will of the people who claimed that he spoke blasphemy, so according to the Biblcial text it he was not killed for sedition.
He claimed to be King of the Jews, thus challenging Roman authority. At least he agreed when asked if he was King of the Jews according to some translations.
Originally posted by whodey Yes, things related to sin and death are generally creepy because those topics are creepy all by themselves, however, it must be dealt with nonetheless.
No, it doesn't, since "sin" doesn't exist, and death is inevitable - unless scientists figure out how to cure us of aging.
Originally posted by whodey Thanks. Yes Constantine ended the era of the early peace loving Christian church by conquering in the name of Christ. Ironically, he did not even convert to Christianity fully until his death bed. Therefore, I am not sure you can blame such violence inflicted in the name of Christ on "Christians" during the time of Constantine.
Originally posted by whodey Sedition? Accroding to the Biblical text Pilate said he saw no reason to crucify him. Pilate simply gave into the will of the people who claimed that he spoke blasphemy, so according to the Biblcial text it he was not killed for sedition.
Well, technically, he was crucified because Pilate decided he was to be crucified. There was no need to be proven guilty of some specific crime.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung No, it doesn't, since "sin" doesn't exist, and death is inevitable - unless scientists figure out how to cure us of aging.
You are right in one regard. Sin does not actually exist, rather, it is simply an absence of love in ones heart for their God and/or for their fellow man. For me that is creepy. 😲
Originally posted by AThousandYoung That's a No True Scotsman fallacy.
Perhaps but it is the truth nonetheless. Consider that before the time of Constantine, Christianity flourished peaceably for over 300 years!! Now compare it to a religion like Islam which was mired in violence as you have pointed out from the begining until present. Why do you suppose this is?
Originally posted by whodey It has occured to me that other men, other than people of faith, have suffered for speaking the truth. For example, Socrates once said something to the effect that if there ever was a man pure in heart and without guile and spoke the truth that he would eventually be murdered. Ironically, this was his fate as well.
You haven't yet provided evidence Biblical or otherwise that any of the disciples or Jesus himself were killed for telling the truth or for telling Gods message. To quote a passage which says that people will suffer for telling the truth does not in any way show that the disciples were examples of this.
Also, it is my belief that when people are persecuted or killed for saying something it is often because their message is in conflict with someone else's beliefs/desires and not because the particular offensive message is the truth or comes from God whereas you seem to be implying (without evidence) that when the message is the truth then people are more likely to be offended.
Originally posted by twhitehead [b]You haven't yet provided evidence Biblical or otherwise that any of the disciples or Jesus himself were killed for telling the truth or for telling Gods message. To quote a passage which says that people will suffer for telling the truth does not in any way show that the disciples were examples of this.
There is historical evidence of the lives the disciples lived and died that I gave on another thread. Historically, there is evidence that they went throughout the world to preach the gospel as evidence by such facts as the nation of Armenia becoming the first Christian nation on earth shortly after the time of Christ. I suppose that you could say that they were killed for other reasons other than their message. However, I think this to be highly unlikely.
Offending others
29 Aug '07 04:42
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