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    28 Aug '07 05:01
    Why is God's message to manking over the centuries so offensive? Why is truth so offensive? Why is it so devisive? Don't believe me? Here is what Christ said.

    Luke 11:49 "Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will slay and persecute. That the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the alter and the temple, verily I say to you, It will be required of this generation."

    Then what happened to Christ and his disciples? You guessed it, they all were murdered as well, but why? What did they do to deserve such fates? Why were they seen a such threats? What in their message proved to be so incendiary?
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    28 Aug '07 06:43
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why is God's message to manking over the centuries so offensive? Why is truth so offensive? Why is it so devisive? Don't believe me?
    I don't believe that what you think is the truth is actually the truth. I also don't believe that the truth in general is offensive even though some of it might be.

    Then what happened to Christ and his disciples? You guessed it, they all were murdered as well, but why? What did they do to deserve such fates? Why were they seen a such threats? What in their message proved to be so incendiary?
    Different ones did different things and there were various reasons for each ones death.
    Surely you did a thread on each ones death before? Didn't you list the reasons then? I don't think any of them were killed for carrying an offensive message.
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    28 Aug '07 13:572 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I don't believe that what you think is the truth is actually the truth. I also don't believe that the truth in general is offensive even though some of it might be.

    [b]Then what happened to Christ and his disciples? You guessed it, they all were murdered as well, but why? What did they do to deserve such fates? Why were they seen a such threats? Wh t the reasons then? I don't think any of them were killed for carrying an offensive message.
    They were not killed for their offensive message? Did they not die because of their message? I don't understand.

    I say that John 3:19-20 applies here. "And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth comes in the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

    In terms of Christ saying that the blood of the prophets rest on the people, it is interesting that such prophets were the objects of the wrath of the people. God injected them into the societies in which they lived to warn them more often than not. It was their job to warn the people of their evil ways lest they take ownership for it via the wrath of God himself thus it was the job of the prophet to shed light into the darkness, so to speak, and to ask them to repent. There was but one of two response which was to be rebuked by the people or for the people to be convicted and repent. In effect, you could say that there are but two responses to sin which is conviction which leads to repentance or condemnation.
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    28 Aug '07 16:33
    It has occured to me that other men, other than people of faith, have suffered for speaking the truth. For example, Socrates once said something to the effect that if there ever was a man pure in heart and without guile and spoke the truth that he would eventually be murdered. Ironically, this was his fate as well.
  5. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    28 Aug '07 20:444 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why is God's message to manking over the centuries so offensive? Why is truth so offensive? Why is it so devisive? Don't believe me? Here is what Christ said.

    Luke 11:49 "Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will slay and persecute. That the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, whic ates? Why were they seen a such threats? What in their message proved to be so incendiary?
    You're making a lot of assumptions here, like the "fact" that it's the truth and God's message.

    Christianity has a history of intolerance. It lets people off the hook for their crimes because "let he without sin cast the first stone". It's obsessed with death, horrible torment, submitting to a stronger power out of fear, and blood sacrifice of the innocent. Christians often reject science and are politically aggressive and controlling. Christians like Moslims seem to love military aggression against others.
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    28 Aug '07 21:07
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    You're making a lot of assumptions here, like the "fact" that it's the truth and God's message.

    Christianity has a history of intolerance. It lets people off the hook for their crimes because "let he without sin cast the first stone". It's obsessed with death, horrible torment, submitting to a stronger power out of fear, and blood sacrifice of th ...[text shortened]... d controlling. Christians like Moslims seem to love military aggression against others.
    From what I can tell, the reason the institution called Christianity has such a poor history is because for the most part it has little to do with what Jesus taught 🙁 Similarly for Christians.


    Ditto Islam, Muhammad and Islam.
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    28 Aug '07 21:121 edit
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    You're making a lot of assumptions here, like the "fact" that it's the truth and God's message.

    Christianity has a history of intolerance. It lets people off the hook for their crimes because "let he without sin cast the first stone". It's obsessed with death, horrible torment, submitting to a stronger power out of fear, and blood sacrifice of th ...[text shortened]... d controlling. Christians like Moslims seem to love military aggression against others.
    Wow! So the reason that the prophets as well as Christ and his followers were martyred, (and when I say martyred I am not referring to suicidal murderings), was that they were:
    1) obsessed with death
    2) submitting to a power out of fear
    3) wanted blood sacrifices of those who were innocent
    4) rejected science
    5) were politically aggressive and controlling

    This is in sharp contrast to the way they are presented in the Bible as preaching the good news of deliverance from sin and death.

    How did they reject science? How were they politically aggressive and controlling? Why do you say they were preoccupied with death? Was it simply because they recognized sin and death as a problem with a subsequent solution? What type of blood sacrifices of the innocent are you referring to? Defend your statements man!!

    This thread is about the statement that Christ made about the recognized prophets of God as well as himself and his immediate disciples. It is not about those who then claimed to be his followers afterwards who may or may not have followed his teachings about the God of the Bible.
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    28 Aug '07 21:161 edit
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    From what I can tell, the reason the institution called Christianity has such a poor history is because for the most part it has little to do with what Jesus taught 🙁 Similarly for Christians.


    Ditto Islam, Muhammad and Islam.
    Once again, I am talking about why the message of the prophets in the OT were so offensive and why Christs message and that of his disciples were recieved so poorly as to cost them their lives. This is not about the problems of modern day Christianity.
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    28 Aug '07 21:40
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    You're making a lot of assumptions here, like the "fact" that it's the truth and God's message.

    Christianity has a history of intolerance. It lets people off the hook for their crimes because "let he without sin cast the first stone". It's obsessed with death, horrible torment, submitting to a stronger power out of fear, and blood sacrifice of th ...[text shortened]... d controlling. Christians like Moslims seem to love military aggression against others.
    Christians like Moslims seem to love military aggression against others.

    I love how brainwashing really works!!!!!!
  10. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    29 Aug '07 01:59
    Originally posted by whodey
    Wow! So the reason that the prophets as well as Christ and his followers were martyred, (and when I say martyred I am not referring to suicidal murderings), was that they were:
    1) obsessed with death
    2) submitting to a power out of fear
    3) wanted blood sacrifices of those who were innocent
    4) rejected science
    5) were politically aggressive and controlli ...[text shortened]... followers afterwards who may or may not have followed his teachings about the God of the Bible.
    Jesus was executed by Roman law and because the Jews pardoned someone else instead.

    I didn't say Jesus or his Apostles specifically. I said Christians as a group.

    Why were they preoccupied with death? Maybe because people are uncomfortable with the idea that they won't exist any more, so they make stuff up about death and "afterlife". I don't know though.

    The innocent blood sacrifices were generally animals, but Jesus is a human example. Isaac's another. Then there's Exodus 22:29, Numbers 31:25-29, Judges 11:29-40, 2 Samuel 21:1, 8-9, 14, and possibly 1 Kings 13:2 and 2 Kings 23:20.

    I answered your questions. If you wanted this thread to be about all that you should have said that at first.
  11. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    29 Aug '07 02:26
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    [b]Christians like Moslims seem to love military aggression against others.

    I love how brainwashing really works!!!!!![/b]
    Ottoman conquest of Constantinople.

    9/11.

    Muslim conquest of India.

    Constant warfare in the Middle East.

    East Pakistan mass emigration of Hindus fleeing Muslim violence.

    Hezbollah's stated goal of removing Israel.

    Early Muslim bandits (led by Muhammed, or rather directed by Muhammed who was sitting in a hut) of Meccan caravans. They kidnapped their targets for ransoming back to the family. Those who weren't ransomed were executed. Others were executed for claiming they wrote as well as the Koran, or for writing about Muhammed. Eventually Muhammed was able to attack and conquer Mecca itself and Arabia fell after that.

    Conquest of Syria, Egypt, North Africa...

    The Barbary pirates.

    Etc.

    Islam, like Christianity, has a strong element of "spread the faith by the sword". I can't understand why you call this claim brainwashing.
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    29 Aug '07 03:02
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    [b]Jesus was executed by Roman law and because the Jews pardoned someone else instead.
    And why was he executed under Roman law? What crime did he committ?
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    29 Aug '07 03:034 edits
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung

    I didn't say Jesus or his Apostles specifically. I said Christians as a group.
    And I did not mention Christians as a group, rather, I mentioned the prophets of the OT and Christ and his immediate disciples.

    I think you will find that Christians did not start getting violent until the religion was politicized after Constantine made the religion so in order to further his own pursuits. Early Christians did not so much as fight back and were literally thrown to the lions. Oddly enough, this helped the religion spread faster than if they had fought back and conquered their oppressors.
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    29 Aug '07 03:05
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Why were they preoccupied with death? Maybe because people are uncomfortable with the idea that they won't exist any more, so they make stuff up about death and "afterlife". I don't know though.
    It sounds to me that they were preoccupied with living. I suppose it depends on your perspective. However, be that as it may, Christ said that he came not only to give us eternal life, but that we might have life more abundantly in this present life. After all, he went around breaking the chains of sin in peoples lives thus liberating them well before they met their end.
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    29 Aug '07 03:124 edits
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    The innocent blood sacrifices were generally animals, but Jesus is a human example. Isaac's another. Then there's Exodus 22:29, Numbers 31:25-29, Judges 11:29-40, 2 Samuel 21:1, 8-9, 14, and possibly 1 Kings 13:2 and 2 Kings 23:20.
    True, they did sacrifice animals which was a forshadowing of Christs ultimate sacrifice on the cross. In Biblical terms, life is in the blood and sin causes death, therefore, the blood is representitive of the life in the blood washing away the sin that causes death. As Christians we no longer have to sacrifice animals for this purpose because we have the blood of Christ to wash us clean.

    However, as for Isaac, he was not sacrificed was he? It was merely another forshadowing of the Father in heaven who would sacrifice his only Son.

    So is this theology or any other issue you brought up a reason for killing Christ and the prophets of the OT? Do you know the history as to why any of the prophets in the OT were martyred?
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