Official Raj list of who is saved/damned

Originally posted by @rajk999
Many of the OT faithful and righteous, even some called perfect know nothing of the death and resurrexction of Christ, and they will be in the Kingdom of God. many thousands in the time of Christ believed and followed his teachings, and were baptised. They too never knew of Christ death. They too will be in the Kingdom of God.

Not surprisingly, that's not what he asked you. Care to answer the actual question?

Originally posted by @suzianne
Not surprisingly, that's not what he asked you. Care to answer the actual question?

Seriously? You couldn't put two and two together?

Here's a hint: "They too never knew of Christ death. They too will be in the Kingdom of God."

Originally posted by @rajk999
Many of the OT faithful and righteous, even some called perfect know nothing of the death and resurrexction of Christ, and they will be in the Kingdom of God. many thousands in the time of Christ believed and followed his teachings, and were baptised. They too never knew of Christ death. They too will be in the Kingdom of God.

The New Covenant that God made with man, which is spoken of in both the Old Testament and New Testament, did not take effect until after Christ’s crucifixion and Resurrection.

I take it by your “non answer” that you do not believe one has to believe in Jesus Christ and His Resurrection to enter the Kingdom of God.

So, in your view, how is salvation post-Christ different from salvation pre-Christ? According to your (and ToO’s) belief system, salvation post-Christ is actually more difficult because Jesus ramped up the definition of sin and God no longer accepted animal sacrifices to atone for sins.

So other than dispensing a more difficult and onerous list of rules to follow, how does Jesus Christ actually fit into your belief system?

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Seriously? You couldn't put two and two together?

Here's a hint: "They too never knew of Christ death. They too will be in the Kingdom of God."

ToO is essentially summarizing rajk’s position as: Jesus Christ’s crucifixion and death was meaningless.

No doubt the Pharisees would have agreed with that position. The atheists also would agree.

And rajk thinks he speaks for God and can declare who will enter the Kingdom of God and who will be damned.

How repulsive.

Originally posted by @romans1009
ToO is essentially summarizing rajk’s position as: Jesus Christ’s crucifixion and death was meaningless.

No doubt the Pharisees would have agreed with that position. The atheists also would agree.

And rajk thinks he speaks for God and can declare who will enter the Kingdom of God and who will be damned.

How repulsive.

Sometimes I think Im speaking to a bunch of 5 yrs olds. Where did I say Christ's death is meaningless. Do you know excatly how it is that the DNA of a mans body works and how it makes him live? Does a man need to believe and know about DNA in order to live?

Jesus's death and resurrection is like that. It was essential for mankind to progress towards eternal life because without it there was no future but death. Jesus never once publicised and preached about his death and resurrection.

So you know Jesus is God. You know Jesus died and was resurrected.
Thats your entry into the Kingdom of God?
Are you insane?

Originally posted by @rajk999
Generally Jesus alone would know. However if someone, like you for example, spend a lot of time telling people not to do good works, and that good works are not important then, yes you are a goat. In Matt 25, goats do not do good works.

Its simple. Tell me if you did not understand and I will explain it again. I know its a hard concept.

I never once told people not to do good works, nor did I once tell them that they are not important.

Try again.

What I did say was, that the sacrifice on the cross was necessary for eternal life.

When Jesus did good works, it was to get their attention. He was not put on this earth just to do good works, or he would have never left.

Jesus feeding the multitudes is an example. Once he fed them they wanted to make him their king. Jesus then withdrew from them and spurned their advances towards him and then later died on a cross. Why, if the ultimate good is only doing good works?

Jesus did not want to just become a meal ticket, rather, he wants to be our Lord and our everything.

Originally posted by @whodey
I never once told people not to do good works, nor did I once tell them that they are not important.

Try again.

What I did say was, that the sacrifice on the cross was necessary for eternal life.

When Jesus did good works, it was to get their attention. He was not put on this earth just to do good works, or he would have never left.

Jesus feed ...[text shortened]... s did not want to just become a meal ticket, rather, he wants to be our Lord and our everything.

Jesus did his part and followed what God sent him to do.
He died for the sins of mankind and this is critical for eternal life.


What are followers of Christ supposed to do?
You say he wants to be out Lord, our everything.
What does that mean?
Please quote where Jesus said that.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Jesus did his part and followed what God sent him to do.
He died for the sins of mankind and this is critical for eternal life.


What are followers of Christ supposed to do?
You say he wants to be out Lord, our everything.
What does that mean?
Please quote where Jesus said that.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me"

It does not get much simpler than that.

So do you agree with Jesus that he is necessary for access to God and life itself?

Originally posted by @whodey
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me"

It does not get much simpler than that.

So do you agree with Jesus that he is necessary for access to God and life itself?

Please quote where Jesus said this: he wants to be our Lord and our everything
Quoting another passage which you clearly do not understand is not helping.

Plus I asked you What are followers of Christ supposed to do?
Please answer before you continue with more questions.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Please quote where Jesus said this: he wants to be our Lord and our everything
Quoting another passage which you clearly do not understand is not helping.

Plus I asked you What are followers of Christ supposed to do?
Please answer before you continue with more questions.

I don't understand that you don't understand.

John 14:5“Lord,” said Thomas, “we do not know where You are going, so how can we know the way?” 6Jesus answered, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. 7If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.”…

For the disciples, their whole lives was Jesus. Their whole identification with who and what God was, was Jesus. Their only hope of salvation revolved around Jesus.

Perhaps you think there is another way. Do you think followers of Mohammad are just as valid a path to God?

As for what we are suppose to do, again, Jesus in the text says I am what you do.

The whole Christian faith is Jesus, or do you disagree?

Originally posted by @whodey
I don't understand that you don't understand.

John 14:5“Lord,” said Thomas, “we do not know where You are going, so how can we know the way?” 6Jesus answered, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. 7If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.”…

For ...[text shortened]... in the text says I am what you do.

The whole Christian faith is Jesus, or do you disagree?

So you cannot provide a reference for a doctrine which you consider to be the KEY.

Im not surprised. Not the first time you are doing that.

Not interested in nebulous questions.

Originally posted by @rajk999
So you cannot provide a reference for a doctrine which you consider to be the KEY.

Im not surprised. Not the first time you are doing that.

Not interested in nebulous questions.

One last comment and then I will let you carry on your good works theology of earning your salvation.

Human need serves a purpose, whether it be hunger, or lack of shelter, or thirst, etc.

It is to inform us that we are in need and wanting for something more. Ultimately, it should point to God himself. Thus, it serves a valuable purpose. And since Jesus said that no man comes to the Father but by God, it should point us to Christ.

Is it then any wonder that those who seemingly have all of their earthly needs met don't feel the need for God on average? Christ referred to this as the deceitfulness of riches.

It is then no wonder that those who seem to hunger physically in this world seem to be the most open to receiving the gospel message?

If you are doing good works without pointing to Christ as the purpose to doing these good works and, ultimately getting connected to God himself since this is what Jesus preached, it is all in vein in the end.

Good works don't save us, nor will they ultimately save anyone. We will all die eventually in need of something. No, good works should point to Jesus because he is the key to God and all good comes from God, all of which Jesus also preached. Only God can meet our eternal needs as well as those temporal needs here and now.

It is up to you to accept it or reject it.

Originally posted by @whodey
One last comment and then I will let you carry on your good works theology of earning your salvation.

Human need serves a purpose, whether it be hunger, or lack of shelter, or thirst, etc.

It is to inform us that we are in need and wanting for something more. Ultimately, it should point to God himself. Thus, it serves a valuable purpose. And since J ...[text shortened]... eeds as well as those temporal needs here and now.

It is up to you to accept it or reject it.

In all that I have written, did I say at any time that anyone is saved by good works?

Anyway ...sounds like you have a nice mouth worship doctrine going there.
You carry on.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Sometimes I think Im speaking to a bunch of 5 yrs olds. Where did I say Christ's death is meaningless. Do you know excatly how it is that the DNA of a mans body works and how it makes him live? Does a man need to believe and know about DNA in order to live?

Jesus's death and resurrection is like that. It was essential for mankind to progress towards ete ...[text shortened]... know Jesus died and was resurrected.
Thats your entry into the Kingdom of God?
Are you insane?

It’s not “knowing,” it’s believing. And it’s not just believing in your mind, it’s believing in your heart.

Originally posted by @romans1009
It’s not “knowing,” it’s believing. And it’s not just believing in your mind, it’s believing in your heart.

We have already established that neither you nor the majority of Christians around here have the slightest clue what it means to believe in your heart. So good luck with that doctrine.

Paul told the born again Christian Saints in Christ, at the church of Ephesus that they are SAVED. Paul also tole these very same born again Christian Saints in Christ that they have NO INHERITANCE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD, unless they live righteously and avoid sin.

You believe that you have eternal life already . So there is something sadly wrong with your doctrine.