Originally posted by roigam
(Ecclesiastes 9:5) For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all,..This just adds to the evidencee that there is no "hell, a place of torment".
In the progressive revelation of the Bible it is better consult the latter
disclosures of God over the earlier and former ones. Some groups are fond of consulting the Old Testament Ecclesiastes
in hope finding a word which will neutralize a latter New Testament revelation.
Everything written in Ecclesiastes
is written from the standpoint of man being "under the sun"
. We are limited in this temporal and natural life. So Solomon's standpoint with all natural men "under the sun"
physical death is indeed man's end. He will not say anything or know anything or do anything any longer "under the sun"
in this temporal world.
It is a mistake to grasp Ecclesiastes
on this to make it the final word over and against the latter revelations of the New Testament. Eccesiastes
does have its place. But it should not transcend Christ's revelations to us in, ie. Luke 16
In fact Ecclesiastes
does not [edited] even transcend certain things revealed to us about the prophet Samuel going to Sheol [Hades] and being allowed to come back in spirit to advize the disobedient and forsaken King Saul.
Nothing in Ecclesiastes
should be used to nullify revelation elsewhere that annhilation is not the destiny of man's soul and spirit.
In the 1st Century jailers were called tormentors as they restrained people in jail. When we die, we are tormented in that we are no longer alive and able to move, we are totally restrained.
Anyone who is non-existent and is non-being cannot undergo any kind of punishment or discomfort in any form. Even God cannot punish that which has no existence.
To speak of annhilation into non-existence as "torment" or punishment in any regard is incorrect and not logical.
Plus the fact that if the rich man and Lazarus actually did go into non-existence then it would be rather unrighteous of Jesus Christ to TEACH that the rich man was being in torment.
To supposedly solve a problem you create another.
A non existent person is nothing. Nothing cannot be restrained of left unrestrained. There is NOTHING to deal with PERIOD.