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    06 Oct '09 13:261 edit
    Today, translations of the Holy Scriptures are almost universally available. However, the battle over the Bible has often been a matter of life and death.

    In the book Fifteenth Century Bibles, Wendell Prime writes: “Thirty years after the invention of printing, the Inquisition was in completely successful operation in Spain. Of 342,000 persons punished by it in that country 32,000 were burned alive. It was the Bible which brought them to the flames of martyrdom.

    Equally terrible was this engine of destruction in Italy, both at the north and south. Archbishops, aided by the Inquisition, were consuming fires for both Bibles and their readers. Nero made some Christians shine as lights in the world by setting them on fire, sewed up in sacks, covered with pitch, using them as candles to illuminate the scene of his debaucheries. But the streets of European cities blazed with Bible bonfires. Bibles were not like readers who could be impoverished, stripped, tortured, mutilated and cast out. Even a leaf surviving might pierce the blackness of this darkness like a star.”

    What author Prime describes actually took place in the case of Bonifacio Ferrers Catalan translation

    Regarding this book, The Cambridge History of the Bible states: “Bonifacio Ferrer’s Catalan translation of the Bible was printed in Valencia, 1478; all available copies were destroyed by the Inquisition before 1500, but a single leaf survives in the Hispanic Society of Americas library.”

    Wendell Prime also noted: “To terrified ecclesiastics there were no good Bibles but burnt Bibles. These holy fires had been far more frequent and brilliant but for the lack of fuel. In many places there were no Bible bonfires merely because authority was so vigilant that there were no Bibles to burn.” Despite such intense efforts to eradicate Bibles intended for the common people, many copies escaped destruction. Prime added: “Bibles were preserved by being carried away by exiles, or by being concealed like precious stones and metals in times of distress and danger.”

    God’s prophet Isaiah wrote: “All flesh is green grass . . . The green grass has dried up, the blossom has withered; but as for the word of our God, it will last to time indefinite.” (Isaiah 40:6, 8)

    Over the centuries, multitudes of Bible lovers and many courageous translators have risked much and suffered greatly for the sake of Gods Word. Yet, human efforts alone could never have ensured its preservation. For this preservation, we thank the Bibles author, Jehovah.
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    06 Oct '09 13:321 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Today, translations of the Holy Scriptures are almost universally available. However, the battle over the Bible has often been a matter of life and death.

    In the book Fifteenth Century Bibles, Wendell Prime writes: “Thirty years after the invention of printing, the Inquisition was in completely successful operation in Spain. Of 342,000 persons pun ...[text shortened]... never have ensured its preservation. For this preservation, we thank the Bibles author, Jehovah.
    Jehova is innocent of the most barbaric book in the world. It's written by mere mortals.
    Jehova didn't even had a pen...
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    06 Oct '09 13:33
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    ...
    Over the centuries, multitudes of Bible lovers and many courageous translators have risked much and suffered greatly for the sake of Gods Word. Yet, human efforts alone could never have ensured its preservation. For this preservation, we thank the Bibles author, Jehovah.
    Nonsense!

    The Church was very much the able custodian of the written Word, and its interpretation. With the advent of the printing press, the masses then had a means of acquiring the Bible for their own use, but without the benefit of the religious training that went along with reading the Good Book.

    The Church was very concerned about this development and while I find their tactics anti-Christian I can't say, after the fact, that their concern was without merit.
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    06 Oct '09 14:51
    Originally posted by Badwater
    Nonsense!

    The Church was very much the able custodian of the written Word, and its interpretation. With the advent of the printing press, the masses then had a means of acquiring the Bible for their own use, but without the benefit of the religious training that went along with reading the Good Book.

    The Church was very concerned about this developmen ...[text shortened]... their tactics anti-Christian I can't say, after the fact, that their concern was without merit.
    ohhh, is that why they opposed its translation into the vernacular, is that why in some instances possession of a bible was punishable by death, is that why biblical translators like William Tyndale had to flee from city to city on pain of death, is that why Bonifacio Ferrers Catalan translation was burned, well is it? the church has been the custodian of naught but its own interests since the fourth century and beyond, take a look at the opulence of those buildings if you dont believe me, in comparison to the squalor which surrounded them.
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    06 Oct '09 15:01
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Jehova is innocent of the most barbaric book in the world. It's written by mere mortals.
    Jehova didn't even had a pen...
    the most barbaric book in the world? uumm i think that is a matter of some controversy.
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    06 Oct '09 18:191 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    the most barbaric book in the world? uumm i think that is a matter of some controversy.
    Kill homosexuals, menstruating women are unclean, only some are people of god, not to mention the fantasies of revelations...
    If this book was written today, it would be forbidden in modern countries. Mein Kampf is a children book in comparison.
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    06 Oct '09 19:46
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Kill homosexuals, menstruating women are unclean, only some are people of god, not to mention the fantasies of revelations...
    If this book was written today, it would be forbidden in modern countries. Mein Kampf is a children book in comparison.
    actually mein kampf was inspired by the evolutionary hypothesis, of which you yourself are an advocate, and we know what that led to. As for your other assertions regarding sexual morality. God as the creator has the right to decree what he sees as proper conduct, whether its with regard to homosexual acts, bestiality, or any other type of deviant behaviour which is contrary to nature, and this is the whole universal issue, that being whether God has the right to decree or whether humans know any better.
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    06 Oct '09 19:55
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    actually mein kampf was inspired by the evolutionary hypothesis, of which you yourself are an advocate, and we know what that led to. As for your other assertions regarding sexual morality. God as the creator has the right to decree what he sees as proper conduct, whether its with regard to homosexual acts, bestiality, or any other type of deviant b ...[text shortened]... iversal issue, that being whether God has the right to decree or whether humans know any better.
    "actually mein kampf was inspired by the evolutionary hypothesis"
    In your twisted opinion, yes, not in any other sense.

    In the bible we can read that homosexuals should be killed. Same thing you can read in Mein Kampf.
    In the bible we can read that a certain people is better than all others, a kind of master people, or übermench. You can read the same in Mein Kampf.
    I don't know whether Hitler thought menstruating women are unclean, as it says in the bible, but perhaps you know.

    I Sweden it is illegal to discriminate homosexuals, as advocated in the bible. Therefore the bible wouldn't be allowed to be selled if written today.
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    06 Oct '09 20:363 edits
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    "actually mein kampf was inspired by the evolutionary hypothesis"
    In your twisted opinion, yes, not in any other sense.

    In the bible we can read that homosexuals should be killed. Same thing you can read in Mein Kampf.
    In the bible we can read that a certain people is better than all others, a kind of master people, or übermench. You can read the sa vocated in the bible. Therefore the bible wouldn't be allowed to be selled if written today.
    no, its not in my twisted opinion, its fact, as the title of the book suggests and other sources corroborate. if you know anything about Nazi ideology, you know that this is the case.

    actually the Bible does not state that others are better, this is a total misconception, or have you never read,

    (Deuteronomy 1:16-18) . . .“And I went on to command your judges at that particular time, saying, ‘When having a hearing between your brothers, you must judge with righteousness between a man and his brother or his alien resident. you must not be partial in judgment. you should hear the little one the same as the great one.

    also

    (Acts 10:34-35) . . .At this Peter opened his mouth and said: “For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial,  but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.

    and just so you get the point

    (James 3:17-18) . . .But the wisdom from above is first of all chaste, then peaceable, reasonable, ready to obey, full of mercy and good fruits, not making partial distinctions, not hypocritical. Moreover, the fruit of righteousness has its seed sown under peaceful conditions for those who are making peace.

    Capiche?

    And let it be known once and for all, we are in no way discriminatory against homosexuals as persons, as individuals and as human beings, it is the act of homosexuality that is condemned, not the person, therefore your argument is misguided, to say the least, do you understand the difference? If they wish to practice something that is contrary to the word of God, then that is their business, it does not mean that i need to condone nor accept the practice.
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    07 Oct '09 04:13
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    no, its not in my twisted opinion, its fact, as the title of the book suggests and other sources corroborate. if you know anything about Nazi ideology, you know that this is the case.

    actually the Bible does not state that others are better, this is a total misconception, or have you never read,

    (Deuteronomy 1:16-18) . . .“And I went on to co ...[text shortened]... d, then that is their business, it does not mean that i need to condone nor accept the practice.
    You found a book that express your thought, and therefore it must be true only because it is written and printed. Right?
    Mein Kampf is written and printed. Therefore it must be true. Right?

    Back to the main issue:
    I say the bible is brutal. One reason is that it actually says that homosexual should be killed.
    You say that if not homosexuals are expressing their love, then they can live. Right? But they won't.

    Does this mean that it is okay to kill homosexuals?
    Have you yourelf killed any homosexuals lately?
    Because you think the bible is right, juste, and correct, representing the will of god, right?
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    07 Oct '09 13:431 edit
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    You found a book that express your thought, and therefore it must be true only because it is written and printed. Right?
    Mein Kampf is written and printed. Therefore it must be true. Right?

    Back to the main issue:
    I say the bible is brutal. One reason is that it actually says that homosexual should be killed.
    You say that if not homosexuals are exp ...[text shortened]...
    Because you think the bible is right, juste, and correct, representing the will of god, right?
    its not so black and white, for it does not express my thoughts, but Gods thoughts, the issue is whether we are willing to submit to those thoughts or establish our own morality.

    Just how neutral was Sweden during the second world war 😛
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    07 Oct '09 13:47
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    its not so black and white, for it does not express my thoughts, but Gods thoughts, the issue is whether we are willing to submit to those thoughts or establish our own morality.

    Just how neutral was Sweden during the second world war 😛
    What has Sweden to do with this topic? This is about if it's okay to kill homosexuals having homosexual sex. You think it's okay, because it says so in the bible? Have you killed any homosexuals lately?

    My point is the bible is brutal. It's hateful regarding homosexual people. If the same book was written today, it would be forbidden according to discrimination laws.
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    07 Oct '09 14:19
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    What has Sweden to do with this topic? This is about if it's okay to kill homosexuals having homosexual sex. You think it's okay, because it says so in the bible? Have you killed any homosexuals lately?

    My point is the bible is brutal. It's hateful regarding homosexual people. If the same book was written today, it would be forbidden according to discrimination laws.
    do you know that there were Swedish volunteer SS corps?
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    07 Oct '09 14:251 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    do you know that there were Swedish volunteer SS corps?
    Tell me what this has to do with the fact that the bible is a brutal book, then we can have a friendly discussuion on the matter. But please let continue the discussion On Topic.

    If the bible the word of god, then it should be possible for christians to go out on the street and kill active homosexuals, right? But people are more intellignet than that. They disobay god and go for the common sense instead. God is cruel, christians generally are not.
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    07 Oct '09 19:132 edits
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Tell me what this has to do with the fact that the bible is a brutal book, then we can have a friendly discussuion on the matter. But please let continue the discussion On Topic.

    If the bible the word of god, then it should be possible for christians to go out on the street and kill active homosexuals, right? But people are more intellignet than that. ...[text shortened]... hey disobay god and go for the common sense instead. God is cruel, christians generally are not.
    actually the passages that you are referring to are in the Mosaic law, specifically given to the nation of Israel. Christians are no longer under the Mosaic law, we do not offer up animal sacrifices, we do not need to go to Jerusalem to worship, we have no need of the Aaronic priesthood, it is now defunct and obsolete.

    We are under a new covenant or agreement, which has as its basis, not a written code, but the conscience, and we have, as an example Jesus Christ to follow as a model. Why is this significant? because clearly he set the example of self sacrifice and love, therefore, we can soundly establish, that Christians, in their adherence to the natural exercise of conscience, adherence to the model of Christ and propensity for self sacrificing love, cannot not only homosexuals, but also any other human being, either in wartime or in peacetime? Killing is simply not possible, for it does not belong to Christians to take life, for this is sacred to God, the life giver, it does not even belong to Christians to judge such an individual, for God is judge.

    In view of such excellent and sublime principles, it is evident that your assertions are unfounded and it is no surprise Fabian for i really believe that you are unaware of these things, for how else could it be, unless one has studied them?
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