1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    03 Mar '14 08:34
    One Remaining Question

    Whom do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?
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    03 Mar '14 08:421 edit
    Morality?

    Myself. I don't kill people not because I've been told not to do that, but because I think killing someone is not a good thing (there are exceptions).

    As to what forms morality in a person... combination of genetics and society I suppose. Evolution plays a huge role in what "we" regard as (im)moral behaviour.

    "Absolute" truth? Depends on the subject, but mostly science.

    EDIT: something tells me this is not in fact the "one remaining question"...
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    03 Mar '14 08:45
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]One Remaining Question

    Whom do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?[/b]
    I hope you don't think atheists lack moral...?
    That moral is just christians can have?

    I can show you a bunch of christians who lack moral.
  4. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    03 Mar '14 11:52
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    I hope you don't think atheists lack moral...?
    That moral is just christians can have?

    I can show you a bunch of christians who lack moral.
    No comparisons intended... simply a one sentence open ended question.
  5. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    03 Mar '14 11:562 edits
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    Morality?

    Myself. I don't kill people not because I've been told not to do that, but because I think killing someone is not a good thing (there are exceptions).

    As to what forms morality in a person... combination of genetics and society I suppose. Evolution plays a huge role in what "we" regard as (im)moral behaviour.

    "Absolute" truth? Depen ...[text shortened]... mostly science.

    EDIT: something tells me this is not in fact the "one remaining question"...
    '"Absolute" truth? Depends on the subject, but mostly science.' -GKR

    Absolute truth: unalterable laws, the final word. Does "science" make laws or observe and study laws it has discovered?
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    03 Mar '14 12:22
    Observe and study.
  7. Standard memberCalJust
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    03 Mar '14 12:251 edit
    Originally posted by Great King Rat


    EDIT: something tells me this is not in fact the "one remaining question"...
    😀. 😀


    Three new "final questions" to follow tomorrow!
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    03 Mar '14 13:00
    CalJust,
    Have you put faith in Christ as your Savior?

    King James Version
    ====================
    Mark 16: 15, 16
    And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

    He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
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    03 Mar '14 13:11
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]One Remaining Question

    Whom do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?[/b]
    Absolute Truth? The scientific method: it's the only reliable way we have to find out what is untrue (since it is impossible to know what really is the truth.

    Morals? Just seeing what works in improving peoples lives and does the least harm.

    Penguin.
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    03 Mar '14 13:16
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    No comparisons intended... simply a one sentence open ended question.
    When you ask "Whom do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?", then the answer cannot be any supernatural entity, some god, or something/someone else non-human or super-human, right?

    What you ask for is a person, like Barak Obama, Nelson Mandela, or Mahatma Gandhi or someone alike, right?
  11. Cape Town
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    03 Mar '14 13:43
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]One Remaining Question

    Whom do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?[/b]
    I do not look to a 'whom' I look to logic, and the scientific method, and my own rationality. I do not rely on 'ultimate authorities' for anything.
  12. Standard membersonship
    the corrected one.
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    03 Mar '14 14:065 edits
    Originally posted by Penguin
    [b]Absolute Truth? The scientific method: it's the only reliable way we have to find out what is untrue (since it is impossible to know what really is the truth.


    What scientific test would you devise to show that the scientific method was the only possible way to really know what untruth is ?

    Since you are trying to prove that the scientific method is the only source of knowing untruth, you cannot USE the scientific method itself because that would be circular.

    The statement you make is self contradictory. It is a philosophical statement. It is not a statement from a circular application of the scientific method to prove itself as the only reliable way to ascertain untruth.

    You are making a philosophical statement which of necessity assumes a priori that -

    The scientific method: it's the only reliable way we have to find out what is untrue (since it is impossible to know what really is the truth.


    The statement cannot be true, because it is self contradictory. It is "self referentially incoherent."

    It is like " I cannot write a word of English."

    It is like "All English sentences consist of only three words."
  13. Standard membersonship
    the corrected one.
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    03 Mar '14 14:18
    Originally posted by Penguin
    (since it is impossible to know what really is the truth.


    Penquin, is THIS statement a true statement ?
  14. Cape Town
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    03 Mar '14 15:37
    Originally posted by sonship
    What scientific test would you devise to show that the scientific method was the only possible way to really know what untruth is ?
    Note that he didn't say it was the only possible method, he said it was the only reliable method.
    Note also that the scientific method doesn't apply to logic. Logical truths can be found by the use of logic. So mathematics for example does not involve the scientific method at all, yet still contains truths.
    The scientific method is used to understand reality.

    Since you are trying to prove that the scientific method is the only source of knowing untruth, you cannot USE the scientific method itself because that would be circular.

    The statement you make is self contradictory. It is a philosophical statement. It is not a statement from a circular application of the scientific method to prove itself as the only reliable way to ascertain untruth.

    Because you misunderstand what the scientific method is, and what its applications are, you have gone off on a tangent and got totally lost.

    The thing is, that there are many things that are logically possible, but reality is only a subset of the logically possible. The scientific method is about finding out which subset of the logically possible is represented by reality. And the only reliable way to do that, is by observing reality - which is what the scientific method is all about.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method
  15. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    03 Mar '14 15:40
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
    One Remaining Question

    Whom do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?

    Original Post Re-Phrased:

    "In whom or what do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter
    or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?"
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