Only the spiritual world exists.

@carnivorum said
Sometimes people tell me: "The spiritual world doesn't exist. Only the material world exists."

Oh how horribly wrong they are!

It is the material world which doesn't exist. ONLY the spiritual world exists.
That is now scientifically proven.

Sorry, but I disagree. John 3:16 would suggest both material and spiritual world exists.

"That which is born of the flesh is Flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

I would also direct you to this essay from Bahai:

https://bahaiteachings.org/bridge-between-material-and-spiritual-worlds/

@carnivorum said
Sometimes people tell me: "The spiritual world doesn't exist. Only the material world exists."

Oh how horribly wrong they are!

It is the material world which doesn't exist. ONLY the spiritual world exists.
That is now scientifically proven.

I think when theists perceive a "spiritual world", they a looking at the upshot - so to speak - of the human consciousness and our capacity for abstraction, metaphysics, the attributes of the human spirit etc. etc.

Similarly, when theists talk about "souls", I think what they are really looking at is personhood and the unique consciousness that each of us has.

@carnivorum said
Sometimes people tell me: "The spiritual world doesn't exist. Only the material world exists."

Oh how horribly wrong they are!

It is the material world which doesn't exist. ONLY the spiritual world exists.
That is now scientifically proven.

“We are living in a material world”

~ Madonna

@mchill said
Sorry, but I disagree. John 3:16 would suggest both material and spiritual world exists.

"That which is born of the flesh is Flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

I would also direct you to this essay from Bahai:

https://bahaiteachings.org/bridge-between-material-and-spiritual-worlds/

We cannot blame John that he was not familiar with modern science.

@divegeester said
“We are living in a material world”

~ Madonna

Also Madonna is horribly wrong.

We live in a spiritual world.

https://tinyurl.com/mind-only

@carnivorum said
Also Madonna is horribly wrong.

We live in a spiritual world.

https://tinyurl.com/mind-only

Dude, get into the groove.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Dude, get into the groove.

I'm totally groovy.

@carnivorum said
Sometimes people tell me: "The spiritual world doesn't exist. Only the material world exists."

Oh how horribly wrong they are!

It is the material world which doesn't exist. ONLY the spiritual world exists.
That is now scientifically proven.

I think you have an issue with what exists, the material most certainly does exist, if not just walk through a wall without damaging yourself or the wall, it's real as is your physical mortal body. I believe the spiritual world is more important, but that does not mean the material world isn't.

I believe God created both and now people place a lot of importance on gathering as many or particular items in the material world as they can. The more they have, the more successful they feel, until they realize that stuff isn't the most important thing in life.

That way of thinking is backward, life is to be lived and it isn't in the abundance of things we acquire, what we acquire and experience are not the things most important. What is important is what God gets out of us while we experience life and acquire things, how we conduct ourselves, do we do it focused on the temporal or the eternal, is our motivation selfish desires for things, power, or prestige? Do we seek Him, know and obey Him, learn His statutes and precepts, listening for His still small voice telling us which way to go?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Dude, get into the groove.

Puppa don’t preach!

@kellyjay said
I think you have an issue with what exists, the material most certainly does exist, if not just walk through a wall without damaging yourself or the wall, it's real as is your physical mortal body. I believe the spiritual world is more important, but that does not mean the material world isn't.

I believe God created both and now people place a lot of importance on gather ...[text shortened]... im, learn His statutes and precepts, listening for His still small voice telling us which way to go?

Looks like you guys are ignorant on this important point.

And that is weird, because it is known now for a hundred years that the material world doesn't exist.

I guess I have to delve a bit deeper in this.

"Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that Y-H-W-H, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other." Deut 4:39

"You were shown these things so that you might know that Y-H-W-H is God; besides him there is nothing." Deut 4:35

Only God exists.

Besides Him there is nothing.

And when I say nothing I mean NOTHING.

Of course there are always obstructionists who will claim that there is a whole universe filled with all kind of things big and small, and that therefore there do exist things beside God.
To them I say: There is NOTHING except for God.

And what about the whole physical world? The real solid tangible material world?

Well, that's just an illusion.

We are living in a matrix. We only THINK there is a physical world. In reality that is only an illusion, a figment of our imagination. A fata morgana.

Let's take a closer look at that supposed "real world". Take matter, for instance iron. That is made up of atoms, which are made up of a nucleus of protons and neutrons, with circling around it electrons. When we enlarge the nucleus to say a diameter of 4 inches, like an orange, then the electrons are circling around it in a distance of 4 miles.
And in between is nothing. Also not air, because that is something, but totally nothing.

And that means that something like iron, with a very solid feel to it, is 99.9999999999999% nothing.

And that makes a big difference.

In one shot we are rid of 99.9999999999999% of the material world.

However, we are still stuck with the remaining 0.0000000000001%.

But it turns out, that that remnant exists only as matter, something physical, as long as it is observed. The moment it is not observed, it changes into a wave, and no longer exists as a particle.

And that not only raises questions about the essence of matter, but also questions like: "How does dead matter know it is observed?"

People much smarter and much better educated than me, concluded from this that the universe is a mental entity, and not a physical entity.

Here is a youtube which in simple language explains the basics: YouTube

Here is the same story, but now brought to you in a more complicated way, by a professor: YouTube

In the first video it is explained that observation decides the state of the electron; particle or wave, and that when you install a detector, that the electron will start to behave like a particle, and not anymore like a wave.

But they forgot to tell, that when the information about the electron, stored in the detector, is deleted before the electron hits the farthest screen which makes it visible, that it then again starts to behave like a wave.

In 2005 an article appeared in one of the most respected, if not THE most respected, peer reviewed scientific journal, "Nature", which speaks about the mental universe.
That can be read here, if you give them your credit card number: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v436/n7047/full/436029a.html

This link should work: https://henry.pha.jhu.edu/mentaluniverse.pdf

Here excerpts of the article can be found: http://amnap.blogspot.com/2007/04/mental-universe.html

Here a few excerpts:

"Physicists shy from the truth because the truth is so alien to everyday physics. A common way to evade the mental Universe is to invoke ‘decoherence’ — the notion that ‘the physical environment’ is sufficient to create reality, independent of the human mind. Yet the idea that any irreversible act of amplification is necessary to collapse the wave function is known to be wrong: in ‘Renninger-type’ experiments, the wave function is collapsed simply by your human mind seeing nothing. The Universe is entirely mental."

"There is another benefit of seeing the world as quantum mechanical: someone who has learned to accept that nothing exists but observations is far ahead of peers who stumble through physics hoping to find out ‘what things are’. If we can ‘pull a Galileo,’ and get people believing the truth, they will find physics a breeze.
The Universe is immaterial — mental and spiritual. Live, and enjoy."

So the universe is not physical, but mental.

Here is what others said about that one:

“Today there is a wide measure of agreement… that the stream of knowledge is heading towards a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine”
Astronomer James Jeans

“The stuff of the universe is mind-stuff”
Astronomer Arthur Eddington

More recently, described as “an intelligent universe” whose apparent concreteness is generated by cosmic data from an unknowable, organized source. The holographic theory says that: “…our brains mathematically construct hard reality by interpreting frequencies from a dimension transcending time and space. The brain is a hologram, interpreting a holographic universe.”
Cyberneticist David Foster

In his play Copenhagen, which brings quantum mechanics to a wider audience, Michael Frayn gives these word to Niels Bohr: “we discover that... the Universe exists... only through the understanding lodged inside the human head.” . . .

I as a religious person especially like this one:

Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, who was the head of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies wrote in his book, God and the Astronomers, that “For the scientist who has lived by faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream: The scientist has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”

The strange part is that these facts are known for almost a hundred years, and almost nobody knows about it.
How did this state of affairs come about?

On that page with the excerpt of the article about the "Mental Universe" is a comment by a reader that says: " I thought based on that non-mainstream view of QM that he might be a marginal figure, but hardly. His statements lend a great deal of credibility to the idea of consciousness as central to QM and therefore reality."

The author of the article, professor Richard Conn Henry, a physicist at John Hopkins University, answers to that:

"But the truly remarkable thing is that the view of QM that I express is NOT "non-mainstream." It is totally non-controversial. What IS controversial, is talking about it. It has been accurately called physics' skeleton in the closet). Something really has to be done about this, and I am at least trying."

So the mental universe is a fact, a non-controversial generally accepted fact.
That is: amongst scientists.
But what is controversial, is speaking about it. It is swept under the carpet. It is the skeleton in the closet of the scientists.
And that's why this fact is virtually unknown by the guy in the street.
We can compare this to another slip up of science, namely the fact that for 150 the layman was lied to about the assumption that the fossil record would support the evolution theory, something that is absolutely wrong. The fossil record shows the opposite of evolution, namely stasis; non-change.

About this, a famous paleontologist, Niles Eldredge, co-inventor of the punctuated equilibrium theory, says:

"...we have proffered a collective tacit acceptance of the story of gradual adaptive change, a story that strengthened and became even more entrenched as the synthesis took hold. We paleontologists have said that the history of life supports that interpretation, all the while really knowing that it does not."
Eldredge, Niles "Time Frames: The Rethinking of Darwinian Evolution and the Theory of Punctuated Equilibria," Simon & Schuster: New York NY, 1985, p. 44

So here it is stated flat out that the public was lied to about the fossil record for 150 years.
And even so now the fact that the universe and everything in it is not material but mental, is being swept under the carpet and hushed up.
From this we can learn that scientist not necessarily have to good of science in mind, or the good of the masses, but mainly their own good. Sometimes they are just like humans.
And who can blame them, when rocking the boat means that you lose your job, your carrier is gonna be broken, en you'll never again find a job in your field.

Things like that don't happen anymore in our modern society you say?

Just look here what happened to a great scientist, Velikovsky, when he published facts that were not to the liking of the scientific establishment: https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/exodus

Or watch on youtube the documentary "Expelled, No Intelligence Allowed".

But one way or another; the physical universe doesn't exist.

Please be advised that nevertheless it is not a good idea to start banging your head against the wall, thinking: "That wall doesn't exist anyway", because we are subjected to the laws that God has set for our matrix, and head-against-the-wall-banging will result in a nasty headache.

Anyway; Welcome to the Matrix.
(a prophetic movie)

@carnivorum said
Looks like you guys are ignorant on this important point.

And that is weird, because it is known now for a hundred years that the material world doesn't exist.

I guess I have to delve a bit deeper in this.

"Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that Y-H-W-H, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other." Deut 4:39
...[text shortened]... wall-banging will result in a nasty headache.

Anyway; Welcome to the Matrix.
(a prophetic movie)

God created the material world, but He is Holy which not only means righteous, but it also means apart, the material world is an act of creation and God transcends the material world. The heavens may declare the glory of God, but He made us in His image so settling for anything less than knowing God is selling ourselves short. A pantheistic god the Lord God of Heaven and Earth is not.

@carnivorum said
Looks like you guys are ignorant on this important point.

And that is weird, because it is known now for a hundred years that the material world doesn't exist.

I guess I have to delve a bit deeper in this.

"Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that Y-H-W-H, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other." Deut 4:39
...[text shortened]... wall-banging will result in a nasty headache.

Anyway; Welcome to the Matrix.
(a prophetic movie)

Or perhaps, just a movie.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Dude, get into the groove.

you got to prove your love to meee.... 😉

@carnivorum said
Sometimes people tell me: "The spiritual world doesn't exist. Only the material world exists."

Oh how horribly wrong they are!

It is the material world which doesn't exist. ONLY the spiritual world exists.
That is now scientifically proven.

Sometimes people tell me: "The spiritual world doesn't exist. Only the material world exists."
We are spiritual beings living in a material and spiritual body; and, we also live in both a material and spiritual world.
In our current dimension, we cannot have one without the other. You can ignore one or the other, but that does not mean they don't exist.