Origin of Karma

Originally posted by josephw
I already know the truth. And it has set me free.

My journey in this life will end when this body dies. Then I will enjoy life eternal. Actually, I have eternal life right now.

You can't handle that can you? You can't bring yourself to believe that I KNOW I have eternal life. But it's true. I know it!

So you have to say it's an illusion. That's all ...[text shortened]... you choke.

I know what it's like. I've been there.

Of course, now I'm a fool.

You say all this and yet claim that someone who believes something different must be stoned?

Originally posted by caissad4
As a believer in karma I am troubled as to its' origin. If one pre-supposes that there was time when karma did not exist then that presupposition disproves the existence of karma. Therefore, karma could only be an infinite force which governs more than this universe. This implies that there exists at least 1 other universe where karma does not exist and the ...[text shortened]... have already created that "karmatic debt".
New String Theory is looking better all the time.

Getting a sharp zen you get your karma clear, but when your zen is weak you end up controlled by your karma. The most you control your mind the most you control your karma -and finally you will create solely out of you the karma you want to create because your karma is dependent on your mind action alone. Therefore when you control your mind you control your karma, whilst when your mind has hi-jacked you your karma is established beyond your power to control it.

So at first you cultivate a pure conduct by means of keeping your mind still; whenever you achieve it, you are free of opinion and attitude and thoughts and everything becomes clear and “centered” in that specific condition of your immovable mind. The most you meditate the bigger this “point of clear perception” becomes, and eventually this “centre” of yours becomes like the space and thus you can break free from the notion of “centre” too. This way your "centre" becomes the whole universe and the whole universe is you. No dualism.
Then break free, break free on the spot from that “centre” and cease to be bodily connected to it, otherwise your "centre" will fade away when your body will fade away!

It is my knowledge that when you endure injustice, when you endure the evaporation of your karma, when you cultivate no desire and when you dismiss dualism you see that there is no such a thing as sense inside you. And there arel no objects outside you that they are triggering inside you such a thing as a sense. When your inside and your outside become one, your karma is fully controlled by you😵

Originally posted by caissad4
My definition of karma is that the effects created on others by someone inversely create the effect upon the original creator. This is not saying that if you steal 100 dollars from someone then someone will steal from you. It is the effect not the purely physical action although it could be.

Did you really mean to say "inversely" here? "Proportionately" makes more sense to me. If you meant "inversely" can you elaborate on what you meant by that?

Do you see karma as governing all actions in the universe or only a subset? If a subset, can you elaborate on what that subset is?

-Removed-

There is just a string of ever changing (intermediate) conditions (Tib. Bardo), therefore the Eastern philosophers accept that even the slightest fractal of a second between two phases of thought can become the trigger for the individual to get rid of her/ his ignorance. Therefore, when one is deeply prepared to live in an ever-changing world, s/he has advanced towards her/ his understanding of the phenomena and thus s/he gets to understand the way the reality unveils.

Karma (Sans. Karman, Tib. Las) means “debt”, “mission”, “role”, and in a specific context it is also understood as “praxis”, “action” and “energy”. Hoi polloi believe that Karman is just the mechanism “good brings good and evil brings evil”, however this general approach cannot be considered a law because, beyond the obvious amoralism of this shallow core belief, we have to keep in mind that the ever-changing conditions of our social environment, the injustice of our world, the differ ways of living, the diversity of the ethics and, mainly, the ability of the individual to hide her/ his inner thoughts along with the real motivations of her/ his actions allow Karman to appear as a non-universal mechanism regarding the ways it is ever applied.

Karman as a universal physical law (and not solely as an ethical, religious and social law) has Indian origins; it is almost concealed in the first Vedas, it arises in the Brahmanas and it is confirmed in the Upanisads. According to the ancient Hindu and Buddhist traditions Karman is the law of the powerful bond between cause and effect, for it is pointed out that any result will do a circle and it will finally return to its origin, to the cause that caused it. And there, on its origin, the result will be evaporated and exhausted.
This cycle is quite clear in the physical level, however the cause always hides a potential condition that becomes manifested solely when a specific action takes place. Therefore the cause is projected by the real motivation that triggered its manifestation and its direct action. Thus, the motivation that causes any reason and any action at the level of the human beings, is the mind-only thought that leads all these reasons and all these actions, so it is accepted that the final motivation of everything that is manifested is strictly mind-only.

Now, the factual result (that was manifested in our everyday world) has to be again manifested at the mind-only level. Whatever the spirit created, the spirit has to absorb it. Therefore, whatever is not pure to the spirit, it will force the spirit to become again purified; whatever spoiled the Jewel, it will force the Jewel to become again purified. So Karman is not merely a naïve cause-effect bond but the way the spirit evolves after each one of its actions in relation to its real and most inner motivations.

By the time Karman is transferred to the mind-only level of the consciousness of the individual and attains the dimensions of the observer universe, it is not anymore forced to be manifested in a time observable by the individual because the time intervals of its differ manifestation can vary far out of the ability of our cognizance -therefore it is not necessary to be located at a given spacetime. As a result, the effect could be absorbed by its initial cause after performing a very complicated and seemingly “slow” pathway that is by no means related to solely one and only human life. This is the reason why one has to accept (in order to fully understand the Karma Law), as a main consequence, the idea of the succeeding reincarnations of the very same mind-only essence within the Samsaric cycle of existence, because this way the Cause and the Effect is actually a mechanism that does not need secondary conditions from “outside” in order to start turning
😵

Originally posted by menace71
I don't believe in karma in the classical eastern way but there is that idea what comes around goes around. Example someone that treats people like crap will have it dished back at them at some point and vice versa if you treat people right it will also come back on you.




Manny

Its easier to understand the workings of karma in the spirit of "god works in mysterious ways".
Yes the simplistic versions of karma dont seem right do they?
When observing an attack, for example, ther are a lot of factors you have tyo take into consideration when working out who gets what karma from the altrecation.

I seem to have some sort of karma working in my life, but I couldn't isolate its effect over a couple of days or a week .Its the karma of my whole life, and thats very difficult to understand unless you want to read alot!