Origin of the Trinity

Originally posted by kd2acz

History proves that many died because of not believing or accepting this belief.

History proves that many died because of many reasons regarding belief; JW, Jews, Catholics, Protestants and Muslims... just to name a few, die and have died for their beliefs. Believing in the trinity is not unique in this regard, I would say that believing in ...[text shortened]... ches teach the trinity today as a requirement for salvation? Not that I disagree, just curious.

Here a few to consider about the trinity:

http://www.religiousresearcher.org/2008/10/06/faq-on-the-trinity-1-must-one-believe-in-the-trinity-to-be-saved/

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_Trinity_and_could_you_be_a_Christian_and_not_believe_in_the_Trinity

I've noticed a trend in the dogma of the trinity with most links I find. They say you have to believe in the "diety of Jesus" to be saved. Is this not the same as saying you must accept that Jesus is indeed Almighty God which would of course means the trinity?

I found this interesting comment by T Jefferson: Alluding to the doctrine of the Trinity, Thomas Jefferson says: "It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticism that three are one and one is three, and yet, that the one is not three, and the three not one.... But this constitutes the craft, the power, and profits of the priests. Sweep away their gossamer fabrics of fictitious religion, and they would catch no more flies" (Jefferson s Works, Vol. IV, p. 205, Randolph's ed.).
Again Jefferson says: "The hocus-pocus phantasy of a God, like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs" (ibid., p. 360).

So I wonder how many have died for not accepting for the trinity and the inforcement of it by the churches?

Oh and our friend RJH has condemned me to "burn in hell" for not accepting the trinity. So if he says it, it must be real....Lol

Originally posted by divegeester
So you admit that the trinity is not in the bible and this guy invented it?

Third bump for RJHinds...

Originally posted by divegeester
So you admit that the trinity is not in the bible and this guy invented it?

I never said the word "Trinity" was in the Holy Bible. I was just trying to pinpoint when it was first used to refer to an idea in the Holy Bible.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
I never said the word "Trinity" was in the Holy Bible. I was just trying to pinpoint when it was first used to refer to an idea in the Holy Bible.

The Instructor

That's not what your OP says. You say that the origin of the trinity began with this person you quote. My point is that you are exactly correct. The trinity started with him and did not start in the Bible.

Originally posted by galveston75
As I have questioned before and have never recieved much of any responce as of yet, BUT IF the trinity is as big of a central doctrine as is claimed and one that is said to mean ones only salvation by believing in it without question or doubt by it's churches and as history has shown ones actually being put to DEATH for not accepting it..........why is i to care and look at the history and the evidence of the trinity? SATAN has got cha.....

You ask,

...why is it not beyond a doubt cleary explained in the Bible with absolutly not doubts of it's accuracy?

... where does it say that in the Bible?
...Where did Jesus say this?
...Where is the word trinity at in the Bible?

ANSWER: I don't know.


GOD REVEALS MYSTERIES WHEN AND TO WHOM HE PLEASES FOR HIS OWN PURPOSES.

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.

To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.

(Ephesians 3:1-12 NKJV)


[/b]And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory. [/b]

(1 Timothy 3:16 NKJV)

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Glory be to God! Holy! Holy! Holy!

The Instructor

Originally posted by divegeester
That's not what your OP says. You say that the origin of the trinity began with this person you quote. My point is that you are exactly correct. The trinity started with him and did not start in the Bible.

You misunderstood my OP. The idea of what we call the Trinity today began with the teachings of Jesus about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I was only attempting to pinpoint the origin of the word we use to describe this relationship within the One God.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
You misunderstood my OP. The idea of what we call the Trinity today began with the teachings of Jesus about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I was only attempting to pinpoint the origin of the word we use to describe this relationship within the One God.

The Instructor

You said it was the origins of the trinity. I agree with you. Perhaps if you were more honest with yourself you would agree too.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You ask,

...why is it not beyond a doubt cleary explained in the Bible with absolutly not doubts of it's accuracy?

... where does it say that in the Bible?
...Where did Jesus say this?
...Where is the word trinity at in the Bible?

ANSWER: I don't know.


GOD REVEALS MYSTERIES WHEN AND TO WHOM HE PLEASES FOR HIS OWN PURPOSES.

[b]For this re ...[text shortened]... NKJV)

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Glory be to God! Holy! Holy! Holy!

The Instructor

"GOD REVEALS MYSTERIES WHEN AND TO WHOM HE PLEASES FOR HIS OWN PURPOSES."

What? Where does the Bible say that?
What a cop out. There is NO mystery about God in that the bible cleary says he is (((((((((((((((((((((( 1 )))))))))))))))))))))))))) God.
Not once did he ever correct or change that statement.
Love for man and always being truthful to us is one thing we can absolutely count on from him and his son Jesus.
There is no deceit or gray areas or mysteries in the Bible about who they are.
Jehovah is (((((((((((((((((((((((((((( 1 ))))))))))))))))))))))))) God and his son is his only begotten son.
Until you ever get it in your reasoning process and look at the words your own bible uses, you'll always be a token of the one who hates God.

Originally posted by galveston75
As I have questioned before and have never recieved much of any responce as of yet, BUT IF the trinity is as big of a central doctrine as is claimed and one that is said to mean ones only salvation by believing in it without question or doubt by it's churches and as history has shown ones actually being put to DEATH for not accepting it..........why is i ...[text shortened]... to care and look at the history and the evidence of the trinity? SATAN has got cha.....

Well stated, thank you...

Originally posted by kd2acz

History proves that many died because of not believing or accepting this belief.

History proves that many died because of many reasons regarding belief; JW, Jews, Catholics, Protestants and Muslims... just to name a few, die and have died for their beliefs. Believing in the trinity is not unique in this regard, I would say that believing in ...[text shortened]... ches teach the trinity today as a requirement for salvation? Not that I disagree, just curious.

Turn your radio on to Calvary Chapel. They state that if you do not believe in the Triune god, \ you are in a cult/ and not saved.

Well, it appears I am getting several accusations of dishonesty, because I have a different opinion. Can't one have an honest difference of opinion anymore?

The Instructor

Originally posted by galveston75
"GOD REVEALS MYSTERIES WHEN AND TO WHOM HE PLEASES FOR HIS OWN PURPOSES."

What? Where does the Bible say that?
What a cop out. There is NO mystery about God in that the bible cleary says he is (((((((((((((((((((((( 1 )))))))))))))))))))))))))) God.
Not once did he ever correct or change that statement.
Love for man and always being truthful to ...[text shortened]... and look at the words your own bible uses, you'll always be a token of the one who hates God.

I honor and love the Son as my God. Don't you believe that is the same as to honor and love the Father as God?

The Instructor

Originally posted by divegeester
You said it was the origins of the trinity. I agree with you. Perhaps if you were more honest with yourself you would agree too.

Honesty is the best policy.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
Honesty is the best policy.

The Instructor

My honest opinion is that I really like the topic of this thread and thank you, a trinitarian, fro starting it and proving that the origina of "the trinity" is not Bibilical. Helped to make my week actually.

Originally posted by divegeester
My honest opinion is that I really like the topic of this thread and thank you, a trinitarian, fro starting it and proving that the origina of "the trinity" is not Bibilical. Helped to make my week actually.

The word "Trinity" is not from the Holy Bible that is for sure. However, the idea that it is meant to convey is what Jesus taught about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Especially when He said to go teach and baptize in the NAME of the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY SPIRIT.

Of course, I guess that is too much for someone like you and the JWs to understand.

The Instructor