Original Righteousness

Originally posted by jaywill
It is a marvel that God could look upon someone as being as righteous as Christ Himself. New Testament salvation causes Christ to be the believer's righteousness.

It is a marvel that we could be clothed in Christ as our justification before God. The Bible says that the one who trusts in Jesus Christ actually becomes the righteousness of God in Christ: ...[text shortened]... od forever.

So let's talk about a phrase I have coined - "Original Righteousness".

If I understand your position correctly, I believe, as you, that man is born with a nature to be righteous as well as to sin.

It hasn't been my experience that Christians have been any more righteous than non-Christians. Do you have any insight as to why so few Christians actually take Jesus Christ as their Lord and follow the Father?

Originally posted by jaywill
lol. Sure I'll play a chess game or two with you.


I've kept you waiting about worship too long. Briefly let me talk about it.

Take prayer for instance. It is excellent to have a specific time to pray. And as the Moslem's dicilpine to do it three times a day. That is very good.

However, in the New Testament we are taught to pray withou ...[text shortened]...

I played SALADIN chess. He's Moslem too. I can't beat him yet. But I think I will soon.

By the way my question was about Jesus, and how did he worship GOD.

Jesus Bow to GOD the same way Muslims do, why don't you do that.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
If I understand your position correctly, I believe, as you, that man is born with a nature to be righteous as well as to sin.

It hasn't been my experience that Christians have been any more righteous than non-Christians. Do you have any insight as to why so few Christians actually take Jesus Christ as their Lord and follow the Father?

You do not understand my position that well.

Man was created very good. But man was damaged by the fall into union with the Satanic nature.

There is still something good in man but it cannot overpower the poisoness foreign element with which he has been infested by the fall.

The indwelling sin is too powerful for the fallen humanity to overcome. It drags us down. Though we will to do good and delight to do good we do not have the power to overcome to do that which we know is right in our hearts.

This does not mean that the fallen man cannot do any righteous act. There is a break system within man if which he applies does cause some retardation in the downward slide into total corruption. We can put on the breaks and restrict our evil some.

With some people who have given in altogether even the break system of the conscience is so dull as to be not function.

Regeneration is the impartation of the divine nature of God into man. New birth is the dispensing of Christ the Person into man. Being born again is the impartation of God Himself in the Son as the Holy Spirit into man's innermost being.

He does not come into man to improve man's old nature. He does not come into us to reform man's fallen independent nature. He comes to crucify the old man and to resurrect us within to be in organic union with God. To live and walk in the realm of "the divine nature" the only way of escape of corruption.

"Seeing His divine power has granted to us all things which relate to life and godliness, through the full knowledge of Him who has called us to His own glory and virtue,

Through which He has granted to us precious and erxceedingly great promises that thorugh these you might become partakers of the divine nature, having escape the corruption which is in the world through lust" (2 Peter 1:3,4)

That is exceedingly precious promises by which we partake of "the divine nature". The divine nature comes with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit comes with the forgiveness of sins and the new birth of regeneration.

The believer must then learn to live by the new divine nature which is Christ living in a mingled way in union with man's inner being. Just as natural life requires nourishment, growth, and maturation so also divine life mingled with our life requires nourishment, growth, and maturation.

As to your second question, I know thousands of Christians who are walking and living by the divine nature. We are maturing. We are growing.

I fellowship among hundreds locally and thousands of believers globally who are growing and maturing in the Christian walk. We take care of one another. We try not to simply judge one another.

As there are different ages among people of the natural life, there are also levels of age and maturity among people of the spiritual life. I would be unrealistic to say all believers are babies atill living in sin. And I would be equally unrealistic to suggest that every Christian I know was instantaneously mature from the moment they were saved.

Originally posted by jaywill
You do not understand my position that well.

Man was created very good. But man was damaged by the fall into union with the Satanic nature.

There is still something good in man but it cannot overpower the poisoness foreign element with which he has been infested by the fall.

The indwelling sin is too powerful for the fallen humanity to ...[text shortened]... hat every Christian I know was instantaneously mature from the moment they were saved.

Do you believe that George W Bush is walking and living by divine nature?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Do you believe that George W Bush is walking and living by divine nature?

My name is jaywill. I think you should ask me about myself.

It is not my place to assume to put either my stamp of approval or critique of judgment on the other believers.

I would prefer that you ask me about where I think I am in regards to walking and living by the divine nature.

I prefer to take the log out from my own eye first before I attend to the spec in my brother's eye.

Originally posted by jaywill
You do not understand my position that well.

Man was created very good. But man was damaged by the fall into union with the Satanic nature.

There is still something good in man but it cannot overpower the poisoness foreign element with which he has been infested by the fall.

The indwelling sin is too powerful for the fallen humanity to ...[text shortened]... hat every Christian I know was instantaneously mature from the moment they were saved.

What a load of ... interesting ideas! (That's me trying to be, diplomatic.)
Man is created good.
Man is damaged by a fall.
I'd ask where you got this rubbish, but the sad realty is I know only too well.

This is the biggest cop out in the universe - pushing the blame for our faults onto something else: our fall, our union with satan, whatever.
It's a nice way to say, I'm not to blame for the things I do, something else is.

The reality is we are independent, free thinking individuals.
We can choose or not choose to do what we do.

Originally posted by jaywill
My name is jaywill. I think you should ask me about myself.

It is not my place to assume to put either my stamp of approval or critique of judgment on the other believers.

I would prefer that you ask me about where I think I am in regards to walking and living by the divine nature.

I prefer to take the log out from my own eye first before I attend to the spec in my brother's eye.

Earlier you claimed to "know thousands of Christians who are walking and living by the divine nature." I was quite surprised you could make such a claim. You seem take a lot of pride in your belief-system. You seem to take a lot of pride in its exclusivity. What does the Bible say about pride? Why does it say this?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Earlier you claimed to "know thousands of Christians who are walking and living by the divine nature." I was quite surprised you could make such a claim. You seem take a lot of pride in your belief-system. You seem to take a lot of pride in its exclusivity. What does the Bible say about pride? Why does it say this?

Where is the exclusivity?

What is exclusive about "Whosoever believes ...?" (John 3:16) The door to essential relationship with Jesus is WIDE open.

It is opened to "WHOSOEVER".

ammonion,

The reality is we are independent, free thinking individuals.
We can choose or not choose to do what we do.


We are free to make choices. We are not always free to change the consequences of the choices we've made.

I really have nothing else I want to read from you or tell you. We're through.

Originally posted by jaywill
ammonion,

[b]The reality is we are independent, free thinking individuals.
We can choose or not choose to do what we do.


We are free to make choices. We are not always free to change the consequences of the choices we've made.

I really have nothing else I want to read from you or tell you. We're through.[/b]

Oh my God!
How am I going to go on?
I can't stand the thought of never having any contact with you again ...
😉

Originally posted by jaywill
Man was created very good. But man was damaged by the fall into union with the Satanic nature.

Clearly he wasn't made that good, because he wouldn't have
been tempted to disobey the one simple commandment given
to him.

Nemesio

Originally posted by jaywill
Where is the exclusivity?

What is exclusive about [b]"Whosoever believes ...?" (John 3:16) The door to essential relationship with Jesus is WIDE open.

It is opened to "WHOSOEVER".[/b]

You claim that God is the exclusive domain of Christians, yet you deny YOUR sense of exclusivity.

You claim to "know thousands of Christians who are walking and living by the divine nature", yet you say, "it is not my place to assume to put either my stamp of approval or critique of judgment on the other believers" when asked if "you believe that George W Bush is walking and living by divine nature."

Seems more than a little disingenuous to me.

You really ought to check your pride. It may be what is keeping you from Truth.

You could retitle this thread "Self-Righteousness".

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You claim that God is the exclusive domain of Christians, yet you deny YOUR sense of exclusivity.

You claim to "know thousands of Christians who are walking and living by the divine nature", yet you say, "it is not my place to assume to put either my stamp of approval or critique of judgment on the other believers" when asked if "you believe that Georg e what is keeping you from Truth.

You could retitle this thread "Self-Righteousness".

Would you like me to open a thread on self righteousness? I am more proud then you could ever imagine. That is why I need the Lord Jesus Christ as a Savior. I have no trust in my own self humility. I have to enjoy Christ Himself as my attitude in all things.

Do you deem yourself to be much more humble than me?

I guess real humble people like you don't need the blood of Jesus to cleanse them from their pride. Humble people like you can afford to formulate lots of arguments against God and the Bible.

Now to exclusivity. Did you thank God today for ANYTHING? You condemn me for teaching God only loves Christians. But did you turn around and thank God for your sound mind, your shelter, your family, your employment? God has granted you many happy days in your life. In spite of the problems, of which we all share, my God has alloted you many happy days. Did you give thanks to God today for His goodness to you?

Jesus said that His Father " ... He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good and sends rain on the just and the unjust" (Matt.5:45)

It is interesting to me that this verse shows no partiality of the care of God upon the people on the earth. He mentions the evil first and then the good. Then He reverses the order and mentions the just first and then the unjust.

" ... He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good and sends rain on the just and the unjust" (Matt.5:45)

I have no doubt that my God has rendered loving care on your behalf. If you have not stopped to thank God for His care why do you turn and condemn me for being exclusive? Why don't you rather join me in offering thanksgiving and praise for God's non-exclusive care and supply to you?

I don't have any intimate fellowship with Georg Bush. I pray for anyone who has to make the kinds of decisions someone in that position has to make. I understand that he says he is a brother in Christ. I take him as a brother in Christ who is still growing.

I don't know if you want to change this into a political discussion of some kind. At any rate if I did have daily fellowship with George Bush I am sure there are some areas in which I could be of help to him and he to me.

"God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son the whosoever believes into Him should not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16)

A glimpse into eternity in Revelation reveals that God receives people from the four corners of the earth.

" ... I saw, and behold, there was a great multitude which no one could number, out of EVERY nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes ...They will not hunger any more, neither will they thirst any more, neither will the sun beat upon them ... and God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes ..." (Rev. 7:9)

Exclusivity? Do you have a philosophy which promises such universal blessing to the peoples of the earth ? Will your philosophy be the cause to wipe away the tears from the eyes of people from every tribe and nation on the earth? I doubt it.

Here again:

"And the nations shall walk by its light [ New Jerusalem ]; and the kings of the earth bring their glory into it. And its gates shall by no means be shut by day, for there will be no night there. And they will bring the glory and honor of the nations into it.

And anything common and he how makes an abomination and a lie shall by no means enter into it, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life" (See Rev. 21:24-27)

So I see "the kindness and severity of God". On one hand the symbolic gates of the eternal city are opened in four directions toward all the earth. That is very broad and very wide opened. On the other hand those who rejected the salvation of God will not enter into that kingdom.

So sin is excluded and rebellion is excluded. Unholiness is excluded and unrighteousness is excluded. And those who know Christ is the Lord but are afraid to trust Him will be lost. And those who reject His redemption ( I said reject. I did not speak of ignorance ), will have what they want - just themselves in a godless damnation.

Where God is not can only be discribed as a damnation. So those who like their world Godless and their lives Godless will go off to the reward of their Godless eternal punishment. The Godless are excluded.

But now while there is time to repent and believe the gospel He cares for you as He cares for me. Your charge of exclusivity of my faith is a slander against Christ Who died for all.

I think that behind the facade of your accusation of exclusivity may be your rationalizing why you should not trust in the love and redemption of Christ.

Originally posted by ahosyney
By the way my question was about Jesus, and how did he worship GOD.

Jesus Bow to GOD the same way Muslims do, why don't you do that.

ahosney,

Good game. He whopped me folks.

Maybe I can speak to Christ's worship latter.

Originally posted by jaywill
ahosney,

Good game. He whopped me folks.

Maybe I can speak to Christ's worship latter.

And then again, maybe not.