1. Account suspended
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    16 Jun '13 17:094 edits
    What they don't teach you at Sunday School.

    The first published Greek New Testament appeared in the year 1516. It was edited by Erasmus, a Dutch scholar. Erasmus had at his disposal no more than six Greek manuscripts (we have thousands at our disposal today). These manuscripts were part of what is called the Byzantine text family.

    Although Erasmus' edition provided a great boost to the study of the New Testament, it had a number of problems. For one thing, none of his sources had the last six verses of the book of Revelation, so Erasmus translated from the Latin Vulgate back into Greek! Thus, in his text "several words and phrases may be found that are attested in no Greek manuscript whatsoever."(3) [In the first two editions of his New Testament, Erasmus left out I John 5:7 because it did not appear in any of his Greek manuscripts. That verse reads: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." This omission created a furor, so he promised to include the verse in a later edition if it could be found in any Greek manuscript. One was brought forward, and, although Erasmus did not think the text was genuine, he kept his promise and included the verse. It is now believed to have been a very late and unreliable manuscript, and some think it was forged to include the verse.(4)

    Erasmus' Greek text was reworked and reprinted by others including Robert Estienne who divided the text into verses. Theodore Beza then built upon Estienne's work, and his Greek text provided one of the major foundations for the King James Bible. The term Textus Receptus, or Received Text, came from a blurb in another Greek text produced in the early seventeenth century by the Elzevir brothers. This title is still used in connection with the King James, and it is one you will see again in this article.

    Based upon their studies (Westcott and Hort), they argued that the Byzantine text was not the closest to the original writings as the King James advocates claimed. It seemed to have combined readings from other text families, and some readings appeared to have been modified for greater clarity and understanding. Thus, they believed it was at least two steps removed from the original writings.

    http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/kjvdebat.html
  2. Account suspended
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    16 Jun '13 20:08
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    What they don't teach you at Sunday School.

    The first published Greek New Testament appeared in the year 1516. It was edited by Erasmus, a Dutch scholar. [b]Erasmus had at his disposal no more than six Greek manuscripts (we have thousands at our disposal today).
    These manuscripts were part of what is called the Byzantine text family.

    Althou ...[text shortened]... ved from the original writings.

    http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/kjvdebat.html[/b]
    oh dear could no one bring themselves to face the truth.
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    16 Jun '13 20:16
    The interesting thing about all the translations of the Bible however spurious the author's motivations, is that none of them state that a person needs to be a member of any religious group, organisation or church in order to obtain eternal life.
  4. SubscriberProper Knob
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    16 Jun '13 20:17
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    oh dear could no one bring themselves to face the truth.
    How can one deduce if something is 'two steps removed from the original writings' when we don't know for certain what the original writings were?
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    16 Jun '13 20:232 edits
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    How can one deduce if something is 'two steps removed from the original writings' when we don't know for certain what the original writings were?
    you gather together all the manuscripts, papyri, codices that you can and you compare them and reach some kind of a consensus as to what is sound and what is not. It matters not that you have not the original, if ten out of twelve are in harmony then its an educated guess that this was what was originally written or as close to it as you can possibly get. In this way its possible to root out spurious texts and interpolations.
  6. Dublin Ireland
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    16 Jun '13 20:53
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    you gather together all the manuscripts, papyri, codices that you can and you compare them and reach some kind of a consensus as to what is sound and what is not. It matters not that you have not the original, if ten out of twelve are in harmony then its an educated guess that this was what was originally written or as close to it as you can possibly get. In this way its possible to root out spurious texts and interpolations.
    The point is that you are saying that your organization is the consensus
    and therein lies the problem.

    Your out fit is not in accord with what you say is the consensus.

    Your outfit is a cult which has got all the translations wrong
    and has conspired with nazi Germany in order to continue to exist
    during the 1930's and has predicted many things incorrectly.

    So who is the false prophet now?

    It is all on record what your outfit did and how many times
    they got it wrong. History and the Lord will judge your outfit
    very harshly indeed.

    Your publications have been shown to be wrong many times.
    How much longer will you persist in this false apostate following?
  7. Account suspended
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    16 Jun '13 21:043 edits
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    The point is that you are saying that your organization is the consensus
    and therein lies the problem.

    Your out fit is not in accord with what you say is the consensus.

    Your outfit is a cult which has got all the translations wrong
    and has conspired with nazi Germany in order to continue to exist
    during the 1930's and has predicted many thin ...[text shortened]... own to be wrong many times.
    How much longer will you persist in this false apostate following?
    where have i said my organisation has formed a consensus, we did not compile the Westcott and Hort base text which forms the basis of many Bible translations.

    If a translation is wrong i point out why it is wrong, all you do and all you can do is make silly and quite ludicrous assertions because you have practically no knowledge of scripture nor the art of translation. Why must you subject others to your ignorance? do you tell the doctor that his diagnosis is wrong? no because you realise that he has studied medicine and knows more about human physiology than you. How long have you studied the bible so as to tell others about it? I can tell you you know practically nothing about it, for i have made a study of scripture almost every day for the past twenty years and yet here you are, proffering baseless opinions about something you know practically nothing about, what does that make you Johnny?

    this thread is not about Jehovahs witnesses its about the King James version of the bible and it origins if you have not the education nor the manners to respect that then please project your prejudices and ignorance elsewhere, preferably far, far away from me.
  8. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    16 Jun '13 21:13
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    It matters not that you have not the original, if ten out of twelve are in harmony then its an educated guess that this was what was originally written or as close to it as you can possibly get.
    Quantity over quality?

    If nine of the twelve are copies of an incorrect version where does that leave you?

    With your logic the bible with the most copies is closest to the truth!

    The New International version beats KJV according to Wiki
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_translations_of_the_Bible

    At the end of the day ... who cares?
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    16 Jun '13 21:191 edit
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Quantity over quality?

    If nine of the twelve are copies of an incorrect version where does that leave you?

    With your logic the bible with the most copies is closest to the truth!

    The New International version beats KJV according to Wiki
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_translations_of_the_Bible

    At the end of the day ... who cares?
    There are thousands of extant manuscripts, codices and paparyi, in fact, there is more than any other ancient text, we dont here you crying about the account of Alexander or the Greek tragedies, which may have very little substantiating documentation, do we. And no its not the bible with the most copies, the NIV is a translation, not an original text, as is the KJV. People that are interested in truth and accuracy care.
  10. Dublin Ireland
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    16 Jun '13 21:33
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    There are thousands of extant manuscripts, codices and paparyi, in fact, there is more than any other ancient text, we dont here you crying about the account of Alexander or the Greek tragedies, which may have very little substantiating documentation, do we. And no its not the bible with the most copies, the NIV is a translation, not an original text, as is the KJV. People that are interested in truth and accuracy care.
    http://voices.yahoo.com/new-world-translation-errors-jehovah-witness-5366895.html

    Time and time again I have shown you links like this one
    and you say it is all rubbish. You belong to an apostate
    group who have corrupted the original sacred texts yet
    you do not apologize or realize the mistakes and the
    deliberate corruption your cult of a group have made.

    They are apostates and are the work of Satan.
    many times they have changed the word of God
    and made prophecies which have proven to be false.
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    16 Jun '13 21:364 edits
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    http://voices.yahoo.com/new-world-translation-errors-jehovah-witness-5366895.html

    Time and time again I have shown you links like this one
    and you say it is all rubbish. You belong to an apostate
    group who have corrupted the original sacred texts yet
    you do not apologize or realize the mistakes and the
    deliberate corruption your cult of a g ...[text shortened]... many times they have changed the word of God
    and made prophecies which have proven to be false.
    this thread is not about Jehovahs witnesses its about the King James version of the bible and its origins if you have not the education nor the manners to respect that then please project your prejudices and ignorance elsewhere, preferably far, far away from me.

    There is thread about the origins of the New world translation why dont you go over there and hate? this threads title is, Origins of the King James Version of the Bible, what is it about this that you cannot grasp? Will it help if i put it in bold text?
  12. Dublin Ireland
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    16 Jun '13 21:42
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    this thread is not about Jehovahs witnesses its about the King James version of the bible and its origins if you have not the education nor the manners to respect that then please project your prejudices and ignorance elsewhere, preferably far, far away from me.

    There is thread about the origins of the New world translation why dont you go over there and hate?
    Why don't you deal with the challenges in the link which show
    where your apostate religion went wrong?

    Others can read the link and see where your apostate cult went
    wrong in its translations.

    Further research can show all the predictions your organizations made
    that proved to be false. They got it wrong so many times.

    By their fruits ye shall know them. The fruit of your organization is rotten.
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    16 Jun '13 21:461 edit
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    Why don't you deal with the challenges in the link which show
    where your apostate religion went wrong?

    Others can read the link and see where your apostate cult went
    wrong in its translations.

    Further research can show all the predictions your organizations made
    that proved to be false. They got it wrong so many times.

    By their fruits ye shall know them. The fruit of your organization is rotten.
    do you have anything to say about the origins of the King James bible, no, then this is no place for your ignorance and prejudices, try, i dunno, anywhere else in the galaxy, or better still ,another galaxy.
  14. Dublin Ireland
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    16 Jun '13 21:46
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    do you have anything to say about the origins of the King James bible, no, let us know when you do.
    It has been around for longer than your apostate group of demons.
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    16 Jun '13 21:473 edits
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    It has been around for longer than your apostate group of demons.
    thats interesting, can you tell us anything more about it? what about its contents? can you tell us anything about its contents? what about its origin, can you tell us anything about how or why it came about?
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