outta heaven you go

Originally posted by josephw
Don't say WE don't know God exists. I know God exists, and so do you.
You simply fail to acknowledge him.

No, the difference is that you fail to acknowledge you might be wrong.

Originally posted by eatmybishop
so if i dont accept christ or believe in god i will spend eternity in hell, right? so, not only is god refusing me entry in heaven and so denying me an eternity of happiness, but he sends me to a place where i will be tortured for ever and ever as well. doesnt that seem incredible harsh... wouldn't it be enough just to say no at the gates of heaven and ...[text shortened]... n mother!!! ...and you want me to devote my life to that!!!... and some even say god is love!!!

The son of a b...

Originally posted by josephw
Don't say WE don't know God exists. I know God exists, and so do you.
You simply fail to acknowledge him.

Why are you so confident that he exists? People tell you he exists, so he must? They show you a book and say it's God's work. You believe them because? A sad truth is that people are more likely to follow someone with authority, even if they know it's wrong.

Originally posted by shavixmir
The son of a b...

why am i.... you dont even explain... is it because i've attacked something you have no proof even exist?

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Can people in hell choose to leave and go to heaven?

Luke 16:26
And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

Let's apply a little bit of logic and common sense here...

A guy who's so kind hearted; he helps others; gives his time and efforts for the betterment of others; he donates to the poor..... very, very kind person, you see. BUT! he doesn't believe in God-- any of them! Then he dies. He arrives at the Pearly Gates and doesn't get admitted. "Why?," he asks. "Well, because," said St Peter, "Jesus did warn everyone that the only way back to God's kingdom is to follow Him! It's your choice not to choose Jesus/God. It's your loss!"

God's priority isn't whether we are good people or not, you see. The most important thing to Him is whether we love and worship him or not. He is apparently a conceited being. But that is just my personal opinion.

It has been said that God knows everything; He created and designed everything; He is everywhere and He can even see what's in your mind and heart! Yet, we are also told that we are given free will. The truth of the matter is that we do not have free will!

Whatever we do now, tomorrow next year... all these have been determined by God. We have no choice at all; we have no control over our choices. God made them for us. In other words, if God fancies us ending up in hell, then so be it. No need to fight, you are already doomed from the beginning.

Think of it logically. Did Judas have a choice? He was going to be the traitor whether he liked it or not. It's not up to him. Long before he was born, God planned, very carefully, how He would compose his greatest show of all. God predetermined how and when Jesus would arrive on earth; how He would eventually be betrayed, how He would die, His resurrection etc. He even foretold the smallest details up to the number to times the rooster would crow! And of course, Judas did turn out to be the traitor in the end, just as God had planned. And indeed the events unfolded just as God had intended. Did Judas have any free will? Didn't seem to be the case to me. But of course this is just my personal opinion.

Originally posted by ckoh1965
Let's apply a little bit of logic and common sense here...

A guy who's so kind hearted; he helps others; gives his time and efforts for the betterment of others; he donates to the poor..... very, very kind person, you see. BUT! he doesn't believe in God-- any of them! Then he dies. He arrives at the Pearly Gates and doesn't get admitted. "Why?," he asks. n't seem to be the case to me. But of course this is just my personal opinion.

God is not simply looking for a "good guy" he is looking for faith.
For example, according to the Bible Abraham was counted righteous in the eyes of God because he heard his voice and believed and did what God told him. It says nothing about Abraham being counted righteous because he was a "good guy". Free will is the key here to understand this. God seemed it necessary to give us free will so why would he then violate it? Faith is merely agreeing with God in regards to what he has told you through his word. That is, of coarse, if you believe it is his word, and allow him to live inside you and have your spirit man born or quickened, so to speak, before you die. If you then are a follower of what God has told you through his word, the "good guy" stuff will naturally follow but it is not what saves you. Look at Adam and Eve who started all of this mess. I am sure they were "good guys" when they fell as well, however, they lost faith in what God had told them for whatever reason and it is why we are in the predicerment we are in today.

Again, if God can do ANYTHING, he can choose to give us free will even though he is ultimatly in control of everything and even though he can calculate what the future holds. Judus had free will and is accountable for his actions even though Christ knew his heart and knew what decisions he would ultimatly make. He did not stop him because it would have violated his free will. God simply turned the will of Judus into something into good for us even though his will was not in tune with the will of God.

Originally posted by eatmybishop
so if i dont accept christ or believe in god i will spend eternity in hell, right? so, not only is god refusing me entry in heaven and so denying me an eternity of happiness, but he sends me to a place where i will be tortured for ever and ever as well. doesnt that seem incredible harsh... wouldn't it be enough just to say no at the gates of heaven and ...[text shortened]... n mother!!! ...and you want me to devote my life to that!!!... and some even say god is love!!!

I was curious yet lazy so I did a web search and came up with this: http://ecclesia.org/truth/hell.html because I was curious about what the Bible actually says about it rather than the word of mouth. I don't know who these people are, but their chart is interesting.

Originally posted by whodey
God is not simply looking for a "good guy" he is looking for faith.
For example, according to the Bible Abraham was counted righteous in the eyes of God because he heard his voice and believed and did what God told him. It says nothing about Abraham being counted righteous because he was a "good guy". Free will is the key here to understand this. God se ...[text shortened]... to something into good for us even though his will was not in tune with the will of God.

It amazes me that you are still insisting that Judas had free will. He was part of the drama that God composed ages before he was born. There was absolutely nothing Judas could have done to change the events that were to take place. Judas was to be the traitor, and so he did eventually become the traitor, period! At no time was there any element of free will that could have been introduced into the equation.

Originally posted by ckoh1965
It amazes me that you are still insisting that Judas had free will. He was part of the drama that God composed ages before he was born. There was absolutely nothing Judas could have done to change the events that were to take place. Judas was to be the traitor, and so he did eventually become the traitor, period! At no time was there any element of free will that could have been introduced into the equation.

There is no difference between the decisions that you or I make or the decisions that Judus made. God knows our decisions as well as his decisions but that does not mean God manipulated them. Again, if God can do ANYTHING God can give us free will and know what it will be despite this fact. The only difference between Judus and us is that God used the counterproductive decisions Judus made to our benefit. It reminds me of a scripture that says something to the effect that God uses what was meant for our ill and turns it around for our good much like the crusifixian of Christ himself. On the surface it looked very bleak to say the least, however, God turned it around and it bit Lucifer on the arse as it were. I like to think of it this way. That way I no that the greater the evil the greater the good that will come to balance it out and destroy what was meant for our ill.