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    23 Nov '16 15:291 edit
    We all know that we can't repay our sin debt to God. It is only by his forgiveness through Jesus' sacrifice that we can be saved.

    So Jesus tells the parable of how a man received forgiveness but then did not forgive another person. When the king heard of this he reinstated the debt and handed the guy over to be tortured until he repaid the debt.


    He was saved from his sins but then lost his salvation. He is handed over to be tortured forever because the debt he owed he could never pay back.

    Was Jesus correct when he then said this is how it is with us and God?
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    23 Nov '16 15:34
    Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us
  3. Joined
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    23 Nov '16 16:212 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    We all know that we can't repay our sin debt to God. It is only by his forgiveness through Jesus' sacrifice that we can be saved.

    So Jesus tells the parable of how a man received forgiveness but then did not forgive another person. When the king heard of this he reinstated the debt and handed the guy over to be tortured until he repaid the debt.


    He wa ...[text shortened]... could never pay back.

    Was Jesus correct when he then said this is how it is with us and God?
    We all know that we can't repay our sin debt to God. It is only by his forgiveness through Jesus' sacrifice that we can be saved.

    While many Christians seem to believe this, it is not true.

    Ezekiel 18
    21“But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

    24“But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
    25“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust?
    26If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die. 27But if a wicked person turns away from the wickedness they have committed and does what is just and right, they will save their life. 28Because they consider all the offenses they have committed and turn away from them, that person will surely live; they will not die. 29Yet the Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Are my ways unjust, people of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?

    30“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!


    He was saved from his sins but then lost his salvation. He is handed over to be tortured forever because the debt he owed he could never pay back.

    Also not true. Read what Matthew 18 actually says instead of projecting your beliefs onto His words.
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    23 Nov '16 16:221 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    We all know that we can't repay our sin debt to God. It is only by his forgiveness through Jesus' sacrifice that we can be saved.

    So Jesus tells the parable of how a man received forgiveness but then did not forgive another person. When the king heard of this he reinstated the debt and handed the guy over to be tortured until he repaid the debt.


    He wa ...[text shortened]... could never pay back.

    Was Jesus correct when he then said this is how it is with us and God?
    I think you are mistaken. Born again Christians are saved eternally, they are sons of God, their names are written in the book of life, and they are not required to do anything further to enter the Kingdom of God. They automatically go these good things like being forgiving because they have the Spirit of Christ. Just look around at the 1.5 Billion Christians and you will see what I mean. You just cannot miss the fact that they are the light of the world and salt of the earth.
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    23 Nov '16 16:29
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    [b]We all know that we can't repay our sin debt to God. It is only by his forgiveness through Jesus' sacrifice that we can be saved.

    While many Christians seem to believe this, it is not true.

    [quote]Ezekiel 18
    21“But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, th ...[text shortened]... not true. Read what Matthew 18 actually says instead of projecting your beliefs onto His words.[/b]
    Yes, if you turn away and forgive then you be forgiven.
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    23 Nov '16 16:30
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I think you are mistaken. Born again Christians are saved eternally, they are sons of God, their names are written in the book of life, and they are not required to do anything further to enter the Kingdom of God. They automatically go these good things like being forgiving because they have the Spirit of Christ. Just look around at the 1.5 Billion Christia ...[text shortened]... mean. You just cannot miss the fact that they are the light of the world and salt of the earth.
    What's particularly remarkable is how many of them will go on and on about how they are given forgiveness, yet support the death penalty.
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    23 Nov '16 16:30
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I think you are mistaken. Born again Christians are saved eternally, they are sons of God, their names are written in the book of life, and they are not required to do anything further to enter the Kingdom of God. They automatically go these good things like being forgiving because they have the Spirit of Christ. Just look around at the 1.5 Billion Christia ...[text shortened]... mean. You just cannot miss the fact that they are the light of the world and salt of the earth.
    So Jesus is wrong. It isn't how it is with us and God.
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    23 Nov '16 16:391 edit
    Think,

    Why do you quote from the old testament when it comes to salvation based on the new testament covenant?
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    23 Nov '16 16:43
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Yes, if you turn away and forgive then you be forgiven.
    I suggest you reread Ezekiel 18:21-32. It flies in the face of what you wrote earlier:
    "We all know that we can't repay our sin debt to God. It is only by his forgiveness through Jesus' sacrifice that we can be saved."

    God clearly states that only those who stop committing sin will live and that for those who do, "None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them."

    For those who do not stop committing sin, "None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die."

    This is consistent with what Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23.
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    23 Nov '16 16:511 edit
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    I suggest you reread Ezekiel 18:21-32. It flies in the face of what you wrote earlier:
    "We all know that we can't repay our sin debt to God. It is only by his forgiveness through Jesus' sacrifice that we can be saved."

    God clearly states that only those who stop committing sin will live and that for those who do, "None of the offenses they have commit ...[text shortened]... have committed, they will die."

    This is consistent with what Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23.
    Why will their sins not be remembered?

    Jesus' sacrifice covers the sins of all who have their sins forgiven. Notice what you quoted does not say how it is done. See Hebrews for where the Bible says this is true. Through one man sin entered the world. Through one man comes salvation.

    As I pointed out earlier, if someone turns from sin and forgives then their sins will be forgiven. Same message as isaiah.

    Only after death is it too late.
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    23 Nov '16 17:003 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Why will their sins not be remembered?

    Jesus' sacrifice covers the sins of all who have their sins forgiven. Notice what you quoted does not say how it is done. See Hebrews for where the Bible says this is true. Through one man sin entered the world. Through one man comes salvation.

    As I pointed out earlier, if someone turns from sin and forgives then their sins will be forgiven. Same message as isaiah.

    Only after death is it too late.
    Why will their sins not be remembered?...Notice what you quoted does not say how it is done.

    Actually it does and does so quite explicitly:
    "22None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live."

    Try reading what it actually says instead of projecting your beliefs onto it.
  12. Standard memberRajk999
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    23 Nov '16 17:031 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    So Jesus is wrong. It isn't how it is with us and God.
    Jesus is not wrong, its just that his rules are no longer applicable. The Day of Pentecost brought in a new era of being saved eternally by simply proclaiming your faith with your mouth... no righteousness is required. [In fact if is an insult to Christ sacrifice to attempt to be righteous.] This is called the Dispensation of Grace. Surprised you have not heard of it.
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    23 Nov '16 17:07
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    [b]Notice what you quoted does not say how it is done.

    Actually it does:
    "22None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live."

    Try reading what it actually says instead of projecting your beliefs onto it.[/b]
    I don't think you see the distinction I am making. If you can't see it we'll just have to disagree.
  14. Joined
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    23 Nov '16 17:09
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Jesus is not wrong, its just that his rules are no longer applicable. The Day of Pentecost brought in a new era of being saved eternally by simply proclaiming your faith with your mouth... no righteousness is required. [In fact if is an insult to Christ sacrifice to attempt to be righteous.] This is called the Dispensation of Grace. Surprised you have not heard of it.
    So now we have a third covenant.
  15. Standard memberRajk999
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    23 Nov '16 17:17
    Originally posted by Eladar
    So now we have a third covenant.
    Its explained by Checkbaiter here:

    http://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/spirituality/checkbaiter-and-the-new-dispensation.168770
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