1. Zugzwang
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    22 Apr '16 23:28
    Best wishes to my (or our) Jewish friends and relatives during this holiday.
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    22 Apr '16 23:39
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Best wishes to my (or our) Jewish friends and relatives during this holiday.
    This is an ancient observation that began on Abib (now Nisan) 13, the day before the Exodus. It was inaugurated on the first full moon Of March/April and observed that way through the years.It was to be observed annually on that date.
    This year the first full moon was on March 23rd. (Gregorian calendar)
    Can anyone explain why the Passover is being observed in April this year?
  3. Standard memberchaney3
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    23 Apr '16 00:17
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Best wishes to my (or our) Jewish friends and relatives during this holiday.
    The story of Exodus in the Bible has always troubled me. The fact that God Himself hardened the heart of Pharaoh 10 times to ensure that all of the promised plagues would happen has been confusing to me. The 10th plague, killing of the firstborn, which the people of Moses avoided because they spread blood above the doors, and 'death' would then "pass over", is again due to God hardening the heart of Pharaoh.

    It doesn't make sense to me why God would do this. Granted, the Pharaoh already had a hard heart to begin with, but the Bible is very clear that God did more....to ensure the plagues.

    So, I'm not really certain what the Jewish people are actually celebrating with this holiday. I have read articles on the Exodus story, and most Biblical scholars have difficulty explaining the paradox of a loving God who would purposely harden Pharaoh's heart to make sure that much suffering and death would occur.
  4. Zugzwang
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    23 Apr '16 00:28
    Originally posted by chaney3
    The story of Exodus in the Bible has always troubled me. The fact that God Himself hardened the heart of Pharaoh 10 times to ensure that all of the promised plagues would happen has been confusing to me. The 10th plague, killing of the firstborn, which the people of Moses avoided because they spread blood above the doors, and 'death' would then "pass over" ...[text shortened]... o would purposely harden Pharaoh's heart to make sure that much suffering and death would occur.
    A Jewish friend (who's married to a non-Jew) told me that Passover is an opportunity to
    tell the family stories about Jewish heritage and history. There will be songs, games,
    eating and drinking. He's anxious about the preparations needed to get everything right.
  5. Standard memberchaney3
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    23 Apr '16 01:04
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    A Jewish friend (who's married to a non-Jew) told me that Passover is an opportunity to
    tell the family stories about Jewish heritage and history. There will be songs, games,
    eating and drinking. He's anxious about the preparations needed to get everything right.
    Technically though, isn't Passover a celebration of the 10th plague of Egypt, in which many, many firstborn children were killed? Maybe the Jewish children were spared, but many children were not so fortunate.
  6. Joined
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    23 Apr '16 02:18
    Originally posted by roigam
    This is an ancient observation that began on Abib (now Nisan) 13, the day before the Exodus. It was inaugurated on the first full moon Of March/April and observed that way through the years.It was to be observed annually on that date.
    This year the first full moon was on March 23rd. (Gregorian calendar)
    Can anyone explain why the Passover is being observed in April this year?
    15 Nisan is in April.
  7. SubscriberSuzianne
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    23 Apr '16 09:22
    Originally posted by roigam
    This is an ancient observation that began on Abib (now Nisan) 13, the day before the Exodus. It was inaugurated on the first full moon Of March/April and observed that way through the years.It was to be observed annually on that date.
    This year the first full moon was on March 23rd. (Gregorian calendar)
    Can anyone explain why the Passover is being observed in April this year?
    It is because this is a leap year in the Hebrew system, and so the year had a 13th month, known as Adar Sheni, or Adar II. The lunar year has 354 days, while the solar year is 365 days, so these extra 11 days add up, and so during the 19 year cycle, 7 of those years are leap years. The leap years are the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 19th year of the 19 year cycle. This last year was the 11th year of the current 19 year cycle which started in 2005. And so an extra month of 29 days was added.

    Passover is observed on Nisan 15 every year. It's just that the day in the Gregorian calendar that falls on changes. Also, the Hebrew month is counted from new moon to new moon, not full moon to full moon. This is why the date is Nisan 15, because this should be the day of the full moon. The appearance of the new moon is called Rosh Chodesh (“head of the month” ). 12 chodeshim make a Shanah, or year, except in leap years, when there are 13 chodeshim in a Shanah.
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    23 Apr '16 09:26
    Originally posted by yoctobyte
    15 Nisan is in April.
    This year, it is.
  9. Joined
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    23 Apr '16 10:141 edit
    Originally posted by chaney3
    The story of Exodus in the Bible has always troubled me. The fact that God Himself hardened the heart of Pharaoh 10 times to ensure that all of the promised plagues would happen has been confusing to me. The 10th plague, killing of the firstborn, which the people of Moses avoided because they spread blood above the doors, and 'death' would then "pass over" ...[text shortened]... o would purposely harden Pharaoh's heart to make sure that much suffering and death would occur.
    The reason God hardened his heart I think is because of the Pharaoh killing the first born of the Hebrews in search of snuffing out their deliverer Moses before the plagues began.

    It's called an eye for an eye. The same was then done to them.
  10. Subscribersonhouse
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    23 Apr '16 10:431 edit
    Originally posted by chaney3
    The story of Exodus in the Bible has always troubled me. The fact that God Himself hardened the heart of Pharaoh 10 times to ensure that all of the promised plagues would happen has been confusing to me. The 10th plague, killing of the firstborn, which the people of Moses avoided because they spread blood above the doors, and 'death' would then "pass over" ...[text shortened]... o would purposely harden Pharaoh's heart to make sure that much suffering and death would occur.
    Considering the whole thing was just made up by humans, it's not surprising the viciousness of the tale.

    A god, a real loving god, would have found a different way to deal with the problem that didn't involve the deaths of newborn innocents, A repulsive story.

    For instance, assuming all of that is true, a real god couldn't have done more than just send messages to the Pharaoh? Like lift his sorry ass up about ten feet in the air and say, you want to let my people go or what? I think that would have gotten his attention....
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    23 Apr '16 11:43
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Considering the whole thing was just made up by humans, it's not surprising the viciousness of the tale.

    A god, a real loving god, would have found a different way to deal with the problem that didn't involve the deaths of newborn innocents, A repulsive story.

    For instance, assuming all of that is true, a real god couldn't have done more than just se ...[text shortened]... and say, you want to let my people go or what? I think that would have gotten his attention....
    For instance, assuming all of that is true, a real god couldn't have done more than just send messages to the Pharaoh? Like lift his sorry ass up about ten feet in the air and say, you want to let my people go or what? I think that would have gotten his attention...

    So in your words "assuming all that is true", are you saying you know better of what God should have done to get pharoh's attention? If so, what makes you think so?
  12. Zugzwang
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    23 Apr '16 19:46
    Originally posted by sonhouse to chaney3
    Considering the whole thing was just made up by humans, it's not surprising the viciousness of the tale.

    A god, a real loving god, would have found a different way to deal with the problem that didn't involve the deaths of newborn innocents, A repulsive story.

    For instance, assuming all of that is true, a real god couldn't have done more t ...[text shortened]... and say, you want to let my people go or what? I think that would have gotten his attention....
    There are non-supernatural hypotheses aiming to explain the Biblical 'plagues of Egypt'.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_of_Egypt

    "Some scientists claim that the plagues can be attributed to a chain of natural phenomena
    triggered by changes in the climate and environmental disasters hundreds of miles away."

    Round up the usual suspect! Climate change (or the butler) did it!
  13. Standard memberchaney3
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    23 Apr '16 20:16
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    There are non-supernatural hypotheses aiming to explain the Biblical 'plagues of Egypt'.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_of_Egypt

    "Some scientists claim that the plagues can be attributed to a chain of natural phenomena
    triggered by changes in the climate and environmental disasters hundreds of miles away."

    Round up the usual suspect! Climate change (or the butler) did it!
    My interest is with the Jewish people who 'believe' the story of the Exodus as told in the Bible, and celebrate Passover with, as you describe.....food, games, drinking, etc.

    What is their opinion of the trade-off with the 10th plague...that is, the people of Moses were set free, but with the death of many innocent children and the untold pain and suffering of the families of those children, who most likely had NO idea of the situation unfolding between Moses and Pharaoh.

    I currently don't have any friends or relatives that celebrate Passover, or I would ask.
  14. Zugzwang
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    24 Apr '16 19:37
    Originally posted by chaney3
    My interest is with the Jewish people who 'believe' the story of the Exodus as told in the Bible, and celebrate Passover with, as you describe.....food, games, drinking, etc.

    What is their opinion of the trade-off with the 10th plague...that is, the people of Moses were set free, but with the death of many innocent children and the untold pain and suffe ...[text shortened]... aoh.

    I currently don't have any friends or relatives that celebrate Passover, or I would ask.
    First of all, the Jewish people are very diverse. So I would not claim that my Jewish friends
    or relatives (who tend to be secular or comparatively liberal) can speak for every Jew.

    I have to say that if you, Chaney3, were to ask a Jew, in effect, 'Why do you celebrate a
    holiday that commemorates 'the deaths of many innocent children' in Egypt?', that question
    would be considered offensive, if not anti-Semitic. A Jewish friend of mine said that he
    regards your question as 'poorly informed' at best. Jews (with, sadly, a few hateful exceptions)
    do not celebrate the deaths of innocent people. The celebration is for the deliverance of
    the Jewish people from death and slavery.

    Passover has been a major source of falsehoods exploited to incite hatred against Jewish people.
    For a long time, Christian Europeans murdered Jews on account of the 'blood libel' that Jews
    abducted and murdered Christian children to use their blood to make matzah, a central symbol of Passover.
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    24 Apr '16 20:27
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    This year, it is.
    Guess we were a little off on celebrating Easter this year.
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