Paul "verses" John - NOT

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16 Mar '16 12:37

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16 Mar '16 12:37
This is not one of my monologues. This is a open challenge to someone to demonstrate a serious and significant discrepancy between the teaches of the Apostle Paul and the those of the Apostle John.

I'm out here on a limb now, so give it your best shot.
Actually if anyone has to actually read and study the Bible to meet the challenge - I take that as a near win. At least you're reading.

Ok - Paul's epistles and speeches in Acts on one side,
John's Gospel, Epistles, and book of Revelation on the other side.

And please don't take two and one half sentences out of the Third Epistle of John and claim ONLY those two sentences can be attributed to John.

And please do not take only three and a half sentences from Romans and say "Only this do we believe possibly Paul wrote."
JS357
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16 Mar '16 15:30
Originally posted by sonship
This is not one of my monologues. This is a open challenge to someone to demonstrate a serious and significant discrepancy between the teaches of the Apostle Paul and the those of the Apostle John.

I'm out here on a limb now, so give it your best shot.
Actually if anyone has to actually read and study the Bible to meet the challenge - I take that as a ...[text shortened]... ly three and a half sentences from Romans and say "Only this do we believe possibly Paul wrote."
"John's Gospel, Epistles, and book of Revelation on the other side. "

Are you saying that those writings were by the same person?
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16 Mar '16 15:591 edit
Originally posted by JS357
"John's Gospel, Epistles, and book of Revelation on the other side. "

Are you saying that those writings were by the same person?
Yes.

Regardless, are you saying they contain basic contradictions of a serious and hopelessly contradictory nature to just Paul's letters ?

I'll make it easier for you. Show me serious contradiction between John the Gospel and say Romans and Galatians (books generally undisputed as Pauline).

I tell you I am out on a limb. You may just find something. So try it.
This restriction may be temporary.
Ghost of a Duke
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16 Mar '16 17:54
Originally posted by sonship
Yes.

Regardless, are you saying they contain basic contradictions of a serious and hopelessly contradictory nature to just Paul's letters ?

I'll make it easier for you. Show me serious contradiction between [b]John the Gospel and say Romans and Galatians (books generally undisputed as Pauline).

I tell you I am out on a limb. You may just find something. So try it.
This restriction may be temporary.[/b]
Your mistake sir is to pit Paul against John when clearly the smart money is on Ringo.

Will come back to this thread with a brilliant contradiction between John the Gospel and Romans to demonstrate atheists can do more than yawn.
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16 Mar '16 18:044 edits
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Your mistake sir is to pit Paul against John when clearly the smart money is on Ringo.

Will come back to this thread with a brilliant contradiction between [b]John the Gospel and Romans to demonstrate atheists can do more than yawn.[/b]
A "brilliant contradiction" between John and Romans ?
We'll see.

My promise - If I agree (and I might) I will admit it. That is between John the Gospel and Romans for now.

But if I don't agree, you're going to have to sit up and pay attention to WHY, examining these two books, I see no contradiction.

Don't tell me then "Well, it doesn't interest me anyway!"
JS357
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16 Mar '16 18:16
Originally posted by sonship
Yes.

Regardless, are you saying they contain basic contradictions of a serious and hopelessly contradictory nature to just Paul's letters ?

I'll make it easier for you. Show me serious contradiction between [b]John the Gospel and say Romans and Galatians (books generally undisputed as Pauline).

I tell you I am out on a limb. You may just find something. So try it.
This restriction may be temporary.[/b]
"Regardless, are you saying they contain basic contradictions of a serious and hopelessly contradictory nature to just Paul's letters ? "

I am merely following the conversation. I'm sure you wouldn't set this challenge out if you had any doubt that you can dispel any alleged contradictions.
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16 Mar '16 18:231 edit
I am merely following the conversation. I'm sure you wouldn't set this challenge out if you had any doubt that you can dispel any alleged contradictions.

Not so. When I say that I am out on a limb I mean that I really feel that way.
I want to talk about the matter.

Now, sometimes, sometimes I may even propose something for the argument of the other side.

You see, I still am going to love Jesus no matter what. I can afford to lose an argument on this matter. I don't think it is a devastatingly contrary harm to my faith.

There are some paradoxes and even seemingly apparent contradictions in the Bible. I said "seemingly apparent."
wolfgang59
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16 Mar '16 18:45
Originally posted by sonship
This is not one of my monologues.
🙂 Perhaps there is a god ...........
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16 Mar '16 18:571 edit
Originally posted by wolfgang59
🙂 Perhaps there is a god ...........
Your spirit can touch God. You have a comatose and damaged human spirit.
You are a three dimensional being who has been running on two dimensions.

Something deep in your being is comatose, damaged, in need of quickening and being made alive. Then there will be no problem to the enjoyment and fellowship getting started with God.

Your spirit is damaged. Not your soul I speak of. Something deeper, your human spirit, is deadened and in need to be enlivened and woken up by Jesus granting you a new birth-

" That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6)

Read about the three part man - http://www.tripartiteman.org/

And about the regeneration of the human spirit - the kernel and nucleus of man's being -

www.regenerated.net
JS357
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17 Mar '16 00:20
Originally posted by sonship
I am merely following the conversation. I'm sure you wouldn't set this challenge out if you had any doubt that you can dispel any alleged contradictions.

Not so. When I say that I am out on a limb I mean that I really feel that way.
I want to talk about the matter.

Now, sometimes, sometimes I may even propose something for th ...[text shortened]... paradoxes and even seemingly apparent contradictions in the Bible. I said "seemingly apparent."
JS357
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17 Mar '16 00:25
Originally posted by sonship
I am merely following the conversation. I'm sure you wouldn't set this challenge out if you had any doubt that you can dispel any alleged contradictions.

Not so. When I say that I am out on a limb I mean that I really feel that way.
I want to talk about the matter.

Now, sometimes, sometimes I may even propose something for th ...[text shortened]... paradoxes and even seemingly apparent contradictions in the Bible. I said "seemingly apparent."
Well, there are plenty of web sites that report these seemingly apparent contradictions. Looking specifically for any that are specifically between the allegedly John-written and the allegedly Paul-written takes more work, but it's not work I care to do. I wouldn't count it as an accomplishment to convince you that the "seemingly" is "actually."
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17 Mar '16 02:20
Originally posted by JS357
Well, there are plenty of web sites that report these seemingly apparent contradictions. Looking specifically for any that are specifically between the allegedly John-written and the allegedly Paul-written takes more work, but it's not work I care to do. I wouldn't count it as an accomplishment to convince you that the "seemingly" is "actually."
Can you show me one? I think any "seeming" contradictions in the bible are just that. And I will also submit there are many, but easily understood with study.
vivify
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17 Mar '16 06:072 edits
Originally posted by checkbaiter
Can you show me one? I think any "seeming" contradictions in the bible are just that. And I will also submit there are many, but easily understood with study.
Numbers 23:19: "God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind."

God changes his mind:

Exodus 32:14:
"So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people," (NASB).

Jonah 3:10: "...he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened."

1 Samuel 2:30 “Therefore the Lord, the God of Israel, declares: ‘I promised that members of your family would minister before me forever.’ But now the Lord declares: ‘Far be it from me!'"
wolfgang59
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17 Mar '16 10:55
Originally posted by sonship
1. Your spirit can touch God.
2. You have a comatose and damaged human spirit.
3. You are a three dimensional being who has been running on two dimensions.

1. My "spirit" (a fictional entity) can touch 'god" (another fictional entity) ? THANKS

2. And you diagnosed this how?

3. Mumbo jumbo. Don't use precise mathematical language to give your superstition gravitas.
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17 Mar '16 12:26
1. My "spirit" (a fictional entity) can touch 'god" (another fictional entity) ? THANKS

You are quite welcome. Of course a damaged and comatose human spirit cannot touch God. But the function of the innermost part of man, the human spirit, exists to directly contact God.

The unregenerated man is not aware that he has a human spirit. But many times he is aware that SOMETHING within him seems to be missing. That feeling of being incomplete or having a hollow vacuum within the heart, is the sense of the deadness of the human spirit.

Again. You are welcome.

2. And you diagnosed this how?

This matter is told us by revelation of God plus the experience of servants of God.

Vertically, one should be open to receive God's speaking.
Horizontally, one should be opened to receive help from some people who have preceeded one, in spiritual experience.

For example: (Not a perfect one, but an example). My chess game is not that strong. My eyes glaze over when I study chess charts. I just want to intuitively pick up how to play a good chess game, like Capablanca. However, I do receive good help from some other strong players. Rather than treat their advice with contempt or pride, I learned that their greater experience actually can be helpful.

The analogy is not perfect. So don't bother exploring inconsistencies to me. The main point is that there is such a thing as someone attempting to help another person to understand something that they don't get.

3. Mumbo jumbo. Don't use precise mathematical language to give your superstition gravitas.

I thought you were thanking me. You must be lying about showing gratitude.
A deadened human spirit also impairs a man's conscience. It can make his conscience like the skin that has been seared with a hot iron - insensative, hardened.

Your trivialization and calling this mumbo jumbo may make you feel good. But it does nothing to diminish the true significance of your need to be recovered deep within from a comatose spiritual "organ" to fellowship and commune with your Maker.