1. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    24 Oct '13 19:39
    I thought this was interesting from the spiritual quotes thread.
    Richard Ruhr, a Franciscan priest, who did a comparative study of initiation rites discovered a remarkable similarity in the 'lessons of life' that such rites attempt to teach the young. He summarised them as follows:

    • Life is hard.
    • You're going to die.
    • You're not that important.
    • You're not in control.
    • Life is not just about you.

    They sound harsh and yet each one contains a spiritual truth, and a truth best grasped early. And yet, it seems, in our culture we want to hide these truths, especially from our children. So we feed them:

    • Life can be easy.
    • You can stay young forever.
    • You are what's most important.
    • You must stay in control.
    • Life is mostly about you and your fulfilment.


    I think most religions are about control and making the individual insignificant. Debate!
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    24 Oct '13 21:191 edit
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I think most religions are about control and making the individual insignificant. Debate!
    I think you're in the wrong church.

    You don't go to church? Then how can you make this kind of wildly general and overbearing statement? It's just an opinion, and not very well researched at that.
  3. Joined
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    24 Oct '13 21:561 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    I think you're in the wrong church.

    You don't go to church? Then how can you make this kind of wildly general and overbearing statement? It's just an opinion, and not very well researched at that.
    The priest's name is actually Richard Rohr, which yields better search results. He seems to be more of an inspirational speaker, writer, etc., than a research-oriented anthropologist.
  4. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    24 Oct '13 22:08
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    It's just an opinion, and not very well researched at that.
    Yes just my opinion and I was just asking for opinions of others.

    It seems to me that religions are about rules; controlling sexual practices,
    dictating dress-codes, saying what you can & cannot eat, what to do or not to do on a certain day of the week, how to deal with the newly born, how to deal with the dead. Its all about conformity and control.

    Of course I do not know your church Suzianne so I am making a general statement.
  5. Standard memberRemoved
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    24 Oct '13 22:59
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I thought this was interesting from the spiritual quotes thread.
    [i]Richard Ruhr, a Franciscan priest, who did a comparative study of initiation rites discovered a remarkable similarity in the 'lessons of life' that such rites attempt to teach the young. He summarised them as follows:

    • Life is hard.
    • You're going to die.
    • You're not that impor ...[text shortened]... /i]

    I think most religions are about control and making the individual insignificant. Debate!
    • Life is hard.

    Life has it's challenges, but with God on your side, it is no big deal. In fact, it is an adventure. He promises to show himself strong for his people.

    • You're going to die.

    We are all going to die, if the Lord tarries. But he will raise me up when he does return. There will be great joy, eternal life, no more fear, no sorrows, no war, no more crying, an abundance of food, shall I go on?

    • You're not that important.

    I am very important to God, so much so that he sent his Son to die on a cross to save me and give me eternal life. But God and Jesus are truly who are important.

    • You're not in control.

    Thank God for that!! But what I can control is to choose not to sin and do what is right. I can also choose to be thankful, to praise him, love him and fellowship with him every day!

    • Life is not just about you.

    No, it is not, but God cherishes each one of his children as though it were only about them.

    If you only had a true revelation of the love God has for you too! Sigh..
  6. Standard memberRJHinds
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    25 Oct '13 00:101 edit
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Yes just my opinion and I was just asking for opinions of others.

    It seems to me that religions are about rules; controlling sexual practices,
    dictating dress-codes, saying what you can & cannot eat, what to do or not to do on a certain day of the week, how to deal with the newly born, how to deal with the dead. Its all about conformity and control.

    Of course I do not know your church Suzianne so I am making a general statement.
    Many people do use religion in an attempt to control and take advantage of others. These are the false teachers that Jesus and the apostles warned about. It is clear that Muhammad was a false teacher and prophet of Islam. However, it is not always so clear to everyone in all religions.

    Instead of following after false religious teachers, we should be following the teachings of Jesus, who claimed to be the way, the truth, and the life.

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Glory be to God! Holy! Holy! Holy!

    The Instructor
  7. Subscribersonhouse
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    25 Oct '13 00:17
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    [b]• Life is hard.

    Life has it's challenges, but with God on your side, it is no big deal. In fact, it is an adventure. He promises to show himself strong for his people.

    • You're going to die.

    We are all going to die, if the Lord tarries. But he will raise me up when he does return. There will be great joy, eternal life, no more fe ...[text shortened]... re only about them.

    If you only had a true revelation of the love God has for you too! Sigh..[/b]
    Yeah, we are SO important to this god that it allowed 100 million people to be killed in genocides and war in the last 100 years alone. Great god you have there.
  8. Standard memberRemoved
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    25 Oct '13 00:44
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Yeah, we are SO important to this god that it allowed 100 million people to be killed in genocides and war in the last 100 years alone. Great god you have there.
    I keep telling you, that is YOUR god doing that!
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    25 Oct '13 01:382 edits
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    I keep telling you, that is YOUR god doing that!
    Well, sunhouse is saying that he will not accept a god that will allow 100 million people to be killed in genocides and war in the last 100 years alone. I guess he does not believe God should allow death. Can you tell him why God allows death?

    The Instructor
  10. Cape Town
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    25 Oct '13 05:23
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    • You're not that important.
    To whom?

    • You're not in control.
    Actually we are often in control of a lot more than we realize.

    • Life is not just about you.
    To whom?

    They sound harsh and yet each one contains a spiritual truth, and a truth best grasped early.
    Please explain why they are best grasped early.
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
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    25 Oct '13 05:44
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I thought this was interesting from the spiritual quotes thread.
    [i]Richard Ruhr, a Franciscan priest, who did a comparative study of initiation rites discovered a remarkable similarity in the 'lessons of life' that such rites attempt to teach the young. He summarised them as follows:

    • Life is hard.
    • You're going to die.
    • You're not that impor ...[text shortened]... /i]

    I think most religions are about control and making the individual insignificant. Debate!
    Interesting, I was reading a book that did the exact same thing about
    Jesus' sermon on the mound, where they took what He said and flipped
    it to look at what it looks like if you reject that and embraced the exact
    opposite point by point and came off saying that the world around us
    actually does push opposite of Jesus’ words.
    Kelly
  12. SubscriberPianoman1
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    25 Oct '13 06:31
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Please explain why they are best grasped early.
    Because the earlier you realise the insignificance of your existence the more time you will have to benefit from that enlightenment.
  13. SubscriberPianoman1
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    25 Oct '13 06:37
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I think most religions are about control and making the individual insignificant. Debate!
    Yes, absolutely. All religions, in my view, seek to control. How can it be otherwise? Without the rigorous control of dogma, individuals would be free to come to their own conclusion about the big questions (horror of horrors). Religions are like clubs, each with its own rules and regulations, and you will only be saved if you belong to a particular club. Interface between clubs is strictly forbidden.
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
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    25 Oct '13 06:46
    Originally posted by Pianoman1
    Yes, absolutely. All religions, in my view, seek to control. How can it be otherwise? Without the rigorous control of dogma, individuals would be free to come to their own conclusion about the big questions (horror of horrors). Religions are like clubs, each with its own rules and regulations, and you will only be saved if you belong to a particular club. Interface between clubs is strictly forbidden.
    Clubs or gangs?

    The Instructor
  15. Cape Town
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    25 Oct '13 06:49
    Originally posted by Pianoman1
    Because the earlier you realise the insignificance of your existence the more time you will have to benefit from that enlightenment.
    And what are those benefits?
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