1. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Feb '14 16:42
    KOP's question #2:

    Secondly, please show one scripture in context that tells a person who believes in Christ Jesus for his salvation will not be given eternal life.

    Answer :

    There are several but here are just 2

    Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? (James 2:14-20)


    Simple passages, very easy to understand.

    Christ says clearly that to get into the kingdom you have to do the will of the Father, not just claim to have faith or believe with your mouth. Its believe with your heart and that transforms someone from a doer of evil to a doer of good works.

    James is also very clear faith without works is dead .. no explanation required.
  2. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    06 Feb '14 22:50
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    KOP's question #2:

    Secondly, please show one scripture in context that tells a person who believes in Christ Jesus for his salvation will not be given eternal life.

    Answer :

    There are several but here are just 2

    [i]Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Fat ...[text shortened]... rks.

    James is also very clear [b] faith without works is dead
    .. no explanation required.[/b]
    An alternative address awaits all who reject Christ’s agonizing substitutionary spiritual death on their behalf: the Lake of Fire, sharing the final destination of the devil and his angels. It's an endless nightmare of suffering and pain; a place of eternal torment and hopelessness: "And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Revelation 20:10b) "And if anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the Lake of Fire." (Revelation 20:15)

    Christ took our place and accepted the punishment of separation from God the Father during those final three hours of the crucifixion. His finished work atoned for the sins of all mankind; and in doing so propitiated (satisfied) the Righteousness and Justice of God. All who reject God's Grace Gift are without hope and without eternal life. “God demonstrates His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died as a substitute for us.” (Revelation 20:10b)

    God respects our volition. He has given us the freedom to make our own uncoerced individual choice with respect to the person and finished work of Jesus Christ. By a simple act of faith we can have eternal life: “He gave His only begotten [uniquely born] Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3: 16b)
  3. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    07 Feb '14 00:541 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    God respects our volition. He has given us the freedom to make our own uncoerced individual choice with respect to the person and finished work of Jesus Christ. By a simple act of faith we can have eternal life: “He gave His only begotten [uniquely born] Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3: 16b)
    This is wrong. Faith is not a choice. You either have enough of it to believe, or not. You cannot simply choose to become convinced of god's existence if you don't believe it, or vice versa.
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    07 Feb '14 01:18
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    This is wrong. Faith is not a choice. You either have enough of it to believe, or not. You cannot simply choose to become convinced of god's existence if you don't believe it, or vice versa.
    No faith is indeed a choice, either you choose to believe or not it's your choice and obviously you choose not to have faith.
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    07 Feb '14 01:36
    SwissGambit,
    The Lord God has given you the ability to choose in whom you believe. If you do not believe in Christ, God will not blame Himself or Christ. He will blame you. If I do not believe in Christ like I am supposed to believe in Christ, I will be the one blamed.

    Adam and Eve had only 1 original thing that they were not supposed to do. They asserted their choices to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam blamed Eve, and Eve blamed the serpent. But God judged them for their own disobedience.

    There is enough "light" to see that there is God. So, what is it that you and I are to do about it? We are not to sit back and find reasons why we will not believe. We need to search out God and His way of salvation, and then, believe in His way of salvation.

    King James Version
    ===================
    John 6:37
    All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
  6. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    07 Feb '14 02:162 edits
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    This is wrong. Faith is not a choice. You either have enough of it to believe, or not. You cannot simply choose to become convinced of god's existence if you don't believe it, or vice versa.
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    "This is wrong. Faith is not a choice. You either have enough of it to believe, or not. You cannot simply choose to become convinced of god's existence if you don't believe it, or vice versa."

    There are only three means for human beings to acquire information and knowledge: empiricism; rationalism; and faith perception. All of us learn employing these means routinely. Human volition simply involves a "yes" or "no" decision; we all make many of these decisions every day. Our means of perception provide academic input for processing, acceptance or rejection. Volition is a categorical function within our innermost beings which acts positively or negatively once information has been considered and a decision is required. You and I, as normally functioning human beings, have as much faith capacity as Doubting Thomas, Dawkins, Hitchens, Flew, Sam Harris, Mark Twain or Einstein. We choose our eternal destiny.

    Note: Faith is also used in both Koine Greek and English as a noun (rather than a verb) to denote that which is believed.
  7. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    07 Feb '14 02:44
    Originally posted by tim88
    No faith is indeed a choice, either you choose to believe or not it's your choice and obviously you choose not to have faith.
    Wrong. No counterexamples or argument = no traction with me.
  8. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    07 Feb '14 02:47
    Originally posted by KingOnPoint
    SwissGambit,
    The Lord God has given you the ability to choose in whom you believe. If you do not believe in Christ, God will not blame Himself or Christ. He will blame you. If I do not believe in Christ like I am supposed to believe in Christ, I will be the one blamed.

    Adam and Eve had only 1 original thing that they were not supposed to do. ...[text shortened]... hat the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
    No, no one has given me the ability to choose beliefs.

    The rest of your post is just typical Evangelical Christian cliches. I was a Christian for 20 years. You aren't telling me anything I don't already know with this stuff.

    Let's move beyond repeating cliches and examine whether the ideas behind them actually make sense, shall we?
  9. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    07 Feb '14 02:50
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    "This is wrong. Faith is not a choice. You either have enough of it to believe, or not. You cannot simply choose to become convinced of god's existence if you don't believe it, or vice versa."

    There are only three means for human beings to acquire information and knowledge: empiricism; rationalism; and faith p ...[text shortened]... in both Koine Greek and English as a noun (rather than a verb) to denote that which is believed.
    Counterexample.

    If you stand on a freeway and let a car hit you at 80 mph, what do you think will happen?

    How about I give 2 choices, and you pick which result you think is most likely.

    A) You will walk away unharmed.
    B) You will be gravely injured or killed by the impact.

    Which one do you believe?

    Once you've answered that, try believing the other one instead. Use all the volition you can muster.
  10. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    07 Feb '14 03:051 edit
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Counterexample.

    If you stand on a freeway and let a car hit you at 80 mph, what do you think will happen?

    How about I give 2 choices, and you pick which result you think is most likely.

    A) You will walk away unharmed.
    B) You will be gravely injured or killed by the impact.

    Which one do you believe?

    Once you've answered that, try believing the other one instead. Use all the volition you can muster.
    Why in the world voluntarily A) "stand on a freeway and let a car hit you at 80 mph..." in the first place? I'd B) Refuse.
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    07 Feb '14 03:31
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Counterexample.

    If you stand on a freeway and let a car hit you at 80 mph, what do you think will happen?

    How about I give 2 choices, and you pick which result you think is most likely.

    A) You will walk away unharmed.
    B) You will be gravely injured or killed by the impact.

    Which one do you believe?

    Once you've answered that, try believing the other one instead. Use all the volition you can muster.
    Well if it was you that was hit by the car B "However i have faith in jesus my savior 🙂
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    07 Feb '14 04:18
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Counterexample.

    If you stand on a freeway and let a car hit you at 80 mph, what do you think will happen?

    How about I give 2 choices, and you pick which result you think is most likely.

    A) You will walk away unharmed.
    B) You will be gravely injured or killed by the impact.

    Which one do you believe?

    Once you've answered that, try believing the other one instead. Use all the volition you can muster.
    I would not be stupid enough to stand on a freeway and let a car hit me at 80 mph. I doubt if anyone else would either. I think that is what Jesus called tempting God.
  13. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    07 Feb '14 04:46
    I might as well be debating Moe, Larry and Curly. 😕
  14. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    07 Feb '14 06:02
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    I might as well be debating Moe, Larry and Curly. 😕
    Why "debate"? We're having a conversation about belief in Christ and eternal life. Your active resistance is encouraging.
  15. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    07 Feb '14 23:001 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Why "debate"? We're having a conversation about belief in Christ and eternal life. Your active resistance is encouraging.
    That's generally what it's called when one (or more) people take a position, like "faith is a choice", and then another person (or more) reply, "no, it isn't" and they discuss the issue. A debate.

    Though in this case, not one that will go anywhere. Oh well. Can't hurt to try. They can't all be good.
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