1. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    24 Aug '06 01:25
    Pope sacks astronomer over evolution debate
    By SIMON CALDWELL, Daily Mail 16:57pm 23rd August 2006

    Pope Benedict XVI has sacked his chief astronomer after a series of public clashes over the theory of evolution.
    He has removed Father George Coyne from his position as director of the Vatican Observatory after the American Jesuit priest repeatedly contradicted the Holy See's endorsement of "intelligent design" theory, which essentially backs the "Adam and Eve" theory of creation.

    Intelligent design
    Benedict favours intelligent design, which says God directs the process of evolution, over Charles Darwin’s original theory which holds that species evolve through the random, unplanned processes of genetic mutation and the survival of the fittest.
    But Father Coyne, the director of the Vatican Observatory for 28 years, is an outspoken supporter of Darwin’s theory, arguing that it is compatible with Christianity.
    He has been replaced by Argentine Jesuit Father Jose Funes, 43, an expert on disk galaxies.
    Although the Vatican did not give reasons for Father Coyne’s replacement, sources close to the Holy See say that Benedict would have been unhappy with the priest’s public opposition to intelligent design theory.
    Father Coyne’s most notable intervention came after Cardinal Christoph Schonborn of Vienna, a former student of the Pope, put the case for intelligent design in an article in the New York Times in July last year.

    Debate
    The cardinal, responding to an explosive debate on evolution in the US, had argued that Darwinian concepts of "random variation and natural selection" were incompatible with the Catholic belief that there is a divine purpose and design to nature.
    The cardinal also said that the evolution had become an atheistic ideological dogma that was being used against the Church.
    The views of Cardinal Schonborn, one of the authors of the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church, were criticised just a month later in an article written by Father Coyne for the London-based Tablet magazine.
    God "is not constantly intervening, but rather allows, participates, loves," Fr Coyne wrote, adding: "Religious believers must move away from the notion of a dictator or designer God, a Newtonian God who made the universe as a watch that ticks along regularly.
    "Perhaps God should be seen more as a parent or as one who speaks encouraging and sustaining words."
    The priest later attacked intelligent design theory as a "religious movement" lacking any scientific merit.
    Speaking at a conference in Florida a year ago, Father Coyne said that "intelligent design isn't science, even if it pretends to be".
    Then in a November interview, the 73-year-old priest said the Pope should withhold judgment on the issue, saying he "doesn't have the slightest idea of what intelligent design means in the U.S.".

    Evolution
    Benedict, one of the most respected theologians in the Catholic Church, is understood to be deeply interested in the evolution debate, and has referred to the cosmos as an "intelligent project".
    One source indicated that Cardinal Schonborn’s New York Times article would not have been written without the Pope's permission.
    The removal of Father Coyne also comes just weeks before the Vatican hosts a weekend seminar to examine the impact Darwin's theory on the Church's teaching of Creation.
    The observatory has its origins in the observational tower erected at the Vatican by Pope Gregory XIII in 1578 during reforms of the Western calendar.
    In 1800 the Church began to use the tower for astronomy and in 1891 Pope Leo XIII formally established the Vatican Observatory.
    It has been entrusted to the Jesuits since 1934. Observatory staff work from facilities south of Rome and the University of Arizona in Tucson.
    http://www.imagedumpster.com/uploads/7aa873cb73.jpg
  2. Subscribersonhouse
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    24 Aug '06 06:39
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    Pope sacks astronomer over evolution debate
    By SIMON CALDWELL, Daily Mail 16:57pm 23rd August 2006

    Pope Benedict XVI has sacked his chief astronomer after a series of public clashes over the theory of evolution.
    He has removed Father George Coyne from his position as director of the Vatican Observatory after the American Jesuit priest repeatedly contr ...[text shortened]... Arizona in Tucson.
    http://www.imagedumpster.com/uploads/7aa873cb73.jpg
    So we are supposed to be maybe suprised? Its business as usual at the Vatican.
  3. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    24 Aug '06 07:07
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    So we are supposed to be maybe suprised? Its business as usual at the Vatican.
    Actually the big JP (John Paul) was in favour of Evolution. The big CC (Catholic Church) has gone backwards.

    Wonder where the big LH and IH are now?
  4. Subscribersonhouse
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    24 Aug '06 13:58
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    Actually the big JP (John Paul) was in favour of Evolution. The big CC (Catholic Church) has gone backwards.

    Wonder where the big LH and IH are now?
    That is the chief function of the pope, to hold the dogma line, keep the lies going into the next millenium.
  5. Standard membertelerion
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    24 Aug '06 14:08
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    Actually the big JP (John Paul) was in favour of Evolution. The big CC (Catholic Church) has gone backwards.

    Wonder where the big LH and IH are now?
    So the Rat Singer is a moron. What else is new?
  6. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    24 Aug '06 15:30
    Originally posted by telerion
    So the Rat Singer is a moron. What else is new?
    He looks quite a lot like Emperor Palpatine. Is that new?
  7. Felicific Forest
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    24 Aug '06 19:101 edit
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    Pope sacks astronomer over evolution debate
    By SIMON CALDWELL, Daily Mail 16:57pm 23rd August 2006

    Pope Benedict XVI has sacked his chief astronomer after a series of public clashes over the theory of evolution.
    He has removed Father George Coyne from his position as director of the Vatican Observatory after the American Jesuit priest repeatedly contr Arizona in Tucson.
    http://www.imagedumpster.com/uploads/7aa873cb73.jpg
    ".... the Holy See's endorsement of "intelligent design" theory, which essentially backs the "Adam and Eve" theory of creation."

    Show me where the Vatican, using vatican sources of course, endorses the theory which essentially backs the "Adam and Eve" theory of creation.
  8. Felicific Forest
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    24 Aug '06 19:11
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    That is the chief function of the pope, to hold the dogma line, keep the lies going into the next millenium.
    Which lies ?
  9. Standard memberNemesio
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    24 Aug '06 19:18
    What is the Vatican's explanation for the firing (if, in fact, there was
    one)?
  10. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    24 Aug '06 19:311 edit
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    ".... the Holy See's endorsement of "intelligent design" theory, which essentially backs the "Adam and Eve" theory of creation."

    Show me where the Vatican, using vatican sources of course, endorses the theory which essentially backs the "Adam and Eve" theory of creation.
    413 "God did not make death, and he does not delight in the death of the living. . . It was through the devil's envy that death entered the world" (Wis 1:13; 2:24).

    414 Satan or the devil and the other demons are fallen angels who have freely refused to serve God and his plan. Their choice against God is definitive. They try to associate man in their revolt against God.

    415 "Although set by God in a state of rectitude man, enticed by the evil one, abused his freedom at the very start of history. He lifted himself up against God, and sought to attain his goal apart from him" (GS 13 § 1).

    416 By his sin Adam, as the first man, lost the original holiness and justice he had received from God, not only for himself but for all human beings.

    417 Adam and Eve transmitted to their descendants human nature wounded by their own first sin and hence deprived of original holiness and justice; this deprivation is called "original sin".

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm

    That good enough for you? He asks, knowing that no argument is good enough to convince ivanhoe of the Catholic Church possibly being wrong ever.
  11. Subscribersonhouse
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    24 Aug '06 21:06
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    413 "God did not make death, and he does not delight in the death of the living. . . It was through the devil's envy that death entered the world" (Wis 1:13; 2:24).

    414 Satan or the devil and the other demons are fallen angels who have freely refused to serve God and his plan. Their choice against God is definitive. They try to associate man in their re ...[text shortened]... ment is good enough to convince ivanhoe of the Catholic Church possibly being wrong ever.
    Don't forget about the part where we simultaneously have 'free will' and because Adam commited his sin, it gets passed on down the generations like fat ankles so how do we then have free will?
    The original sin thing is cleverly designed to stun the brains of would be converts and keep the regulars in line. Christianity works a lot better if you in fact have no mind.
  12. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    24 Aug '06 23:14
    Why does the Vatican need an astronomer in the first place?
  13. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    24 Aug '06 23:21
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Why does the Vatican need an astronomer in the first place?
    Remember what happened with that Galileo fellow?
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    24 Aug '06 23:30
    Do any of you have any idea about the issues at hand? Your posts make me suspect the answer is 'no'. Does that stop you from pontificating your views? Clearly not.
  15. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    24 Aug '06 23:33
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    Remember what happened with that Galileo fellow?
    You'd think they would have learned their lesson after that shameful incident. It sounds like history is repeating itself.
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