2 Pages in and I'm going to be the first to answer the question.
I actually enjoyed the Portable Atheist better, because it was a more broad overview of different authors and writing styles. And for the same reason I tend to prefer collections of short stories to novels. (Not implying fiction here, just pointing out my own bias to shorter forms of writing).
But I think Dawkins has a more comprehensive covering of the topic. So I would recommend Portable Atheist for pleasure, God Delusion for depth.
Also I did not find either to be a "strawman". The authors all have bias, but so does everyone on this topic. They try to be decently evenhanded. Dawkins gets a little combative, and can come across as a bit of a d-bag, but that is something I love about him. The Selfish Gene is an enormously important book, as is Unweaving the Rainbow, both of which cover other topics, but I enjoyed more than God Delusion. And if you want the best book on critical thinking, I'd recommend Demon-Haunted World, by Carl Sagan.
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage Spinoza & Hume are well worth reading. But for their philosophy, not their atheism. I dislike the marketing of atheism as a trendy brand.
*shrug*
Better to Enlighten than to Frighten, wouldn't you agree?
Originally posted by FMF Which of the two books in the thread title made the case more interestingly for you even if you don't buy into their atheist argument?
Actually I have not read either, however, I did see the movie "Expelled" where Dawkins made an appearance and made the statement that evolution proved to him that there is no God. In addition, he then went off on a tangent about the God of the Bible and all the flaws he saw with that particular God. From my perspective, it was clear to me that he was not really attacking the idea of a higher being so much as he was the God of the Bible.
On a lighter note, I got a kick out of somone in the movie referring to Dawkins as "reptilian". You know, he is kinda freaky. 😲
Originally posted by David C It doesn't require "faith" to disbelieve certain fairy tales. Do you take it on "faith" that there is no teapot in orbit between Earth and Mars?
Yes. The difference between believing in tea pots that orbits the earth and other things such as God, for example, is that there has never been any evidence for me to believe in the tea pots are, in fact, orbiting earth. However, if you get someone that tells you that tea pots are orbiting the earth it may give you pause. Then perhaps a group of people come out and tell you the samething it may give you greater pause. Then perhaps they slip you a photo they say they took of the tea pots it may give you even greater pause. If nothing else, you would then begin to suspect that something may be going on here other than the silly notion of tea pots orbiting the earth but at least at this point you would not likely completely discount what they are telling you as where before you would have. You see, the more evidence that is brought to you the more you begin to question what exactly it is that you believe and if it is true or not.
Originally posted by whodey it was clear to me that he was not really attacking the idea of a higher being so much as he was the God of the Bible.
Good. It's nice that it is you who indicates your ignorance about the matter in hand rather than me. So you think Dawkins might not bee an atheist, deep down, is that it? And it was funny for you to hear him called "reptilian" was it? Sounds like a silly barb from someone who's just had circles ran round them by someone they couldn't land an intellectual punch on.
Originally posted by whodey Actually I have not read either, however, I did see the movie "Expelled" where Dawkins made an appearance and made the statement that evolution proved to him that there is no God. In addition, he then went off on a tangent about the God of the Bible and all the flaws he saw with that particular God. From my perspective, it was clear to me that he was not really attacking the idea of a higher being so much as he was the God of the Bible.
You should consider reading "The God Delusion" if only to get a better understanding of some of the arguments used by atheists. I haven't seen "Expelled", but from what I heard, they probably carefully selected bits of Dawkins that they thought would look bad, so I wouldn't take what you saw there to be an indication of what he is generally like. I also don't know why you comment on him attacking the God of the Bible not a higher being in general, what is your point? Surely whichever of the two arguments he made it would still go against your beliefs, yet you sound like you are saying "missed me!".
If you read "The God delusion" you will find that he puts forward a good argument as to why he specifically attacks the God of the Bible.
Originally posted by FMF Which of these two books do posters prefer? Dawkins' "God Delusion" or Hitchens' "The Portable Atheist"?
This question is for theists too. Which made the case more interestingly even if you don't buy into it?
"The Miracle of Theism" by J.L. Mackie is profoundly better than either of the books you mention. Dawkins' philosophical arguments are, by and large, sophomoric. The philosophical contents of the volume Hitchens edited are hit-and-miss (though, to his credit, he includes a section from the Mackie book I mention above), but they are generally of literary quality (again, unlike "The God Delusion", which is a punchy but uninspired polemic).
Originally posted by FMF Good. It's nice that it is you who indicates your ignorance about the matter in hand rather than me. So you think Dawkins might not bee an atheist, deep down, is that it? And it was funny for you to hear him called "reptilian" was it? Sounds like a silly barb from someone who's just had circles ran round them by someone they couldn't land an intellectual punch on.
Do I think he is an atheist deep down? You tell me. What I can tell you is that the man is at war with the God of the Bible. That much I am sure of. You could see the flames dart from his eyes when the Bible was discussed.
Of course, I can understand somewhat because science and "the church" seem to have been at each others throats since the days of Galileo. You have such things today as the creation museum trying to debunk what science is and has told us about our past based upon their interpretations of scripture just like in the days of Galileo when the church demanded that he recant the notion that the universe does not revolve around the earth even though the Bible says no such thing. I just find it odd that evolution equals no God. Does enyone else think this to be a bit strange, espeically when evolution does not even address our origins?
Originally posted by twhitehead You should consider reading "The God Delusion" if only to get a better understanding of some of the arguments used by atheists. I haven't seen "Expelled", but from what I heard, they probably carefully selected bits of Dawkins that they thought would look bad, so I wouldn't take what you saw there to be an indication of what he is generally like. I also d puts forward a good argument as to why he specifically attacks the God of the Bible.
I have read some critiques on Dawkins book. Mind you, these are critiques from nonchristian sources that deride him a bit on the book on the basis that the man is clueless about theology/philosophy. Dawkins addressing the Bible via his book is like Christians addressing evolution via the Creation Museum. I just find total disdain on both sides often times for the other which is often fueled by their ignorance of one discipline and their knowledge of the discipline that they spend all their time studying. However, there are rare diamonds in the rough that have a knowledge base about both disciplines and therefore have a healthy respect for them which I enjoy listening to. I like what my pastor said about Dawkins book. He said something similar along the lines of what I have already said. In addition, however, he says the most powerful books questioning the God of the Bible come from those of faith who struggle with pain and suffering who actually walk in faith in the midst of it all. You know, books like Job or other books of Jews who talk about their experience in the Holacaust.
As for books that question God, I thought I have heard pretty much every arguement on these boards. I have too many other books I want to read than books like these so why not read them and come back and throw them at us to argue?
Originally posted by whodey I have read some critiques on Dawkins book. Mind you, these are critiques from nonchristian sources that deride him a bit on the book on the basis that the man is clueless about theology/philosophy. Dawkins addressing the Bible via his book is like Christians addressing evolution via the Creation Museum. I just find total disdain on both sides often times ...[text shortened]... to read than books like these so why not read them and come back and throw them at us to argue?
What compelling, detailed, dismissive thoughts about a book you haven't read.
29 Jul '09 15:25
Portable Atheist v God Delusion
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