Post "unclear" verses

Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
Was it made perfectly clear in the Bible what counts as murder?

When the Lutheran Oberleutnant threw a potato masher grenade into a trench filled with British soldiers near Ypres in World War I, was he committing murder? What if we change the circumstances to a soldier fighting for Fuhrer and Fatherland in World War II?

If a Southern Bapti ...[text shortened]... dead a male intruder in his house who is holding a broken glass bottle, is he committing murder?

Murder is the "unlawful" premeditated killing of one human being by another according to the dictionary. But we have to leave the decision as to what is murder to the legal system. 😏

Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
Exodus 20:13 "Thou shall not kill."

Years ago I quizzed a Christian on what this entailed, getting into things like piloting a bomber in wartime, capital punishment, swatting a fly on purpose, accidentally stepping on a worm, eating corn when the cornstalk was killed by the harvester, and so on.

No, none of these is murder.

You could probably receive enlightenment from a dictionary or the statutes of law.

Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
Was it made perfectly clear in the Bible what counts as murder?

When the Lutheran Oberleutnant threw a potato masher grenade into a trench filled with British soldiers near Ypres in World War I, was he committing murder? What if we change the circumstances to a soldier fighting for Fuhrer and Fatherland in World War II?

If a Southern Bapti ...[text shortened]... dead a male intruder in his house who is holding a broken glass bottle, is he committing murder?

Yes.

No and no.

And no.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Murder is the "unlawful" premeditated killing of one human being by another according to the dictionary. But we have to leave the decision as to what is murder to the legal system. 😏

Murder is not always premeditated. This is why there is "second degree murder". Only "first degree murder" involves premeditation. Murder is almost always intentional, though. Without intent to murder, it becomes "manslaughter" or "negligent homicide".

Here are unclear verses because of punctuation. Punctuation, of course, was added, as well as chapter headings.
Here, for example is a verse cut in half, with a new chapter inserted in the middle, making two verses.
John 7:53
And everyone went to his own house.
NKJV

John 8:1
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
NKJV

In this example, the bias is clearly to show that at death, a Christian is immediately in the presence of Jesus. It depends on where you want to put the comma's.
Luke 23:43
And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."
NKJV
or should it be... "Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise." (future)
Let's remember Jesus went in the grave 3 days and 3 nights.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Here are unclear verses because of punctuation. Punctuation, of course, was added, as well as chapter headings.
Here, for example is a verse cut in half, with a new chapter inserted in the middle, making two verses.
John 7:53
And everyone went to his own house.
NKJV

John 8:1
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
NKJV

In this example, the b ...[text shortened]... l be with Me in Paradise." (future)
Let's remember Jesus went in the grave 3 days and 3 nights.

I don't see what's unclear about the first two verses. Regarding the third one, I assume only his body was in the grave, his soul in heaven. Whatever the case, this isn't a matter of figurative vs. literal. It's merely an inconsistency that is meant to be literal.

Originally posted by checkbaiter

In this example, the bias is clearly to show that at death, a Christian is immediately in the presence of Jesus. It depends on where you want to put the comma's.
Luke 23:43
And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."
NKJV
or should it be... "Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise." (future)
Let's remember Jesus went in the grave 3 days and 3 nights.

That's a good one checkbaiter. Never heard that one before.

So, a possible meaning - SOMETIME, WHO KNOWS WHEN?, the believing thief would be with Jesus in Paradise.

Okay, why would Jesus emphasize that He is telling the thief that "TODAY" ? Isn't is obvious that He is speaking with the thief at the moment - today ?

Is there the likelihood that Jesus would choose some OTHER day to tell the believing thief what He wants to tell him ?

He is about to DIE. The thief also is about to DIE. Do you think Jesus is saying " I could tell you something on another day. But I choose TODAY to tell you. You will be with Me in Paradise eventually sometime."

Possible, checkbaiter, but I think unlikely.

"TODAY you will be with Me in Paradise" I think is intended there rather than IE. "Today I would say to you, sometime you will be with Me in Paradise. I am not sure about ANOTHER day to say this."

Originally posted by sonship
[quote] In this example, the bias is clearly to show that at death, a Christian is immediately in the presence of Jesus. It depends on where you want to put the comma's.
Luke 23:43
And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."
NKJV
or should it be... "Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradis ...[text shortened]... , sometime you will be with Me in Paradise. I am not sure about ANOTHER day to say this."

Jesus himself wasn't in paradise that day. He was dead 3 days and 3 nights, or he lied.

Originally posted by vivify
I don't see what's unclear about the first two verses. Regarding the third one, I assume only his body was in the grave, his soul in heaven. Whatever the case, this isn't a matter of figurative vs. literal. It's merely an inconsistency that is meant to be literal.

Really? A new chapter starts with "But"?

His body was in the grave and his soul no longer exists. He took his last breath. That is all soul is.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Here are unclear verses because of punctuation. Punctuation, of course, was added, as well as chapter headings.
Here, for example is a verse cut in half, with a new chapter inserted in the middle, making two verses.
John 7:53
And everyone went to his own house.
NKJV

John 8:1
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
NKJV

In this example, the bias ...[text shortened]... will be with Me in Paradise." (future)
Let's remember Jesus went in the grave 3 days and 3 nights.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
"Let's remember Jesus went in the grave 3 days and 3 nights." Yes. His body was placed in a rock hewn tomb; His human spirit He commended to God the Father; His soul went to a compartment of Hades known as Abraham's Bosom [Paradise].

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by checkbaiter
"Let's remember Jesus went in the grave 3 days and 3 nights." Yes. His body was placed in a rock hewn tomb; His human spirit He commended to God the Father; His soul went to a compartment of Hades known as Abraham's Bosom [Paradise].

I give up...

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I give up...

Aren't we in agreement?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Jesus himself wasn't in paradise that day. He was dead 3 days and 3 nights, or he lied.

Jesus himself wasn't in paradise that day. He was dead 3 days and 3 nights, or he lied.

First Peter 3:18 - 20

"For Christ also has suffered once for sins, the Righteous on bejalf of the unrighteous, that He might bring you to God on the one hand being put to death in the flesh, but on the other, made alive in the Spirit.


IN WHICH ALSO HE WENT AND PROCLAIMED TO THE SPIRITS IN PRISON, Who had formerly disobeyed which when the long-suffering of God waited] in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared ..."

[my emphasis]

Footnote 19(1) on Second Peter 3:19 from the Recovery Version Bible

Throughout the centuries great teachers of different schools have had varying interpretations concerning the spirits in prison . The most acceptable one according to the Scriptures is as follows; the spirits here refer not to the disembodied spirits of dead human beings held in Hades but to the angels (angels are spirits - Heb. 1:14) who fell through disobedience at Noah's time (v.20 ... ....) and are imprisoned in pits of gloom, awaiting the judgment of the great day (2 Pet. 2:4-5l Jude 6). After His death in the flesh, Christ in His living Spirit as His divinity went (probably to the abyss - Rom. 10:7) to those rebellious angels to proclaim, perhaps, God's victory accomplished through His incarnation in Christ and Christ's death in the fleshg, over Satan's scheme to derange the divine plan.

During the three days and three nights Christ was dead, He in another realm was ACTIVE in the spheres of death. He was in Paradise. And He probably went to other realms to proclaim to the rebellious spirits (angels of Satan) not that they be saved, but to announce that realm, God's victory through Christ's incarnation and work of redemption for man.

Footnote 19(1) on Second Peter 3:19 from the Recovery Version Bible (minus typos)

Throughout the centuries great teachers of different schools have had varying interpretations concerning the spirits in prison . The most acceptable one according to the Scriptures is as follows; the spirits here refer not to the disembodied spirits of dead human beings held in Hades but to the angels (angels are spirits - Heb. 1:14) who fell through disobedience at Noah's time (v.20 ... ....) and are imprisoned in pits of gloom, awaiting the judgment of the great day (2 Pet. 2:4-5; Jude 6). After His death in the flesh, Christ in His living Spirit as His divinity went (probably to the abyss - Rom. 10:7) to those rebellious angels to proclaim, perhaps, God's victory accomplished through His incarnation in Christ and Christ's death in the fleshg, over Satan's scheme to derange the divine plan.

Originally posted by sonship

Jesus himself wasn't in paradise that day. He was dead 3 days and 3 nights, or he lied.

[b] First Peter 3:18 - 20

[quote] "For Christ also has suffered once for sins, the Righteous on bejalf of the unrighteous, that He might bring you to God on the one hand being put to death in the flesh, but on the other, made alive in th ...[text shortened]... announce that realm, God's victory through Christ's incarnation and work of redemption for man.

Jesus died. he went in a grave, and yes he did descend to a place where the demons in chains were. Probably the Nephalim who were kept in chains, and he proclaimed a great victory to them. It was a kind of boasting, and rightfully so. But he was Not in paradise until he ascended to the father 3 days later.
Oh, but wait, you think he is the father? Never mind.