1. Joined
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    30 Mar '07 18:17
    In another thread Kelly and I were discussing, essentially, power and corruption.

    My statement:
    'Power corrupts.
    Absolutely power corrupts absolutely.'

    This a common aphorism, almost, the direct quote being:
    'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely' - John Dalberg-Acton

    From http://tinyurl.com/yv4t9q :
    'An observation that a person’s sense of morality lessens as his or her power increases. The statement was made by Lord Acton, a British historian of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.'



    Now Kelly replied:
    'No
    Power reveals corruption
    Absolute power will reveal it absolutely'



    Now, these two phrases seem almost polar opposites...
    It would seem that my statement is a very negative view of humanity, but Kelly's is positive.


    Kelly, can you elaborate a bit on your statement so I can grasp what you are saying better? Then I shall do the same.
  2. Joined
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    30 Mar '07 19:32
    Originally posted by Bad wolf
    In another thread Kelly and I were discussing, essentially, power and corruption.

    My statement:
    'Power corrupts.
    Absolutely power corrupts absolutely.'

    This a common aphorism, almost, the direct quote being:
    'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely' - John Dalberg-Acton

    From http://tinyurl.com/yv4t9q :
    'An observation ...[text shortened]... on your statement so I can grasp what you are saying better? Then I shall do the same.
    I presume Kelly means god is the ultimate power and as such reveals corruption due to his absolute benevolence and all knowingnessthingamyjig.
  3. Joined
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    30 Mar '07 19:443 edits
    Originally posted by Starrman
    I presume Kelly means god is the ultimate power and as such reveals corruption due to his absolute benevolence and all knowingnessthingamyjig.
    That's what I thought at first, but in the other thread he said he was talking about people.

    "I'm talking about people"


    So I'm a little confused with how this would work, without God.
  4. Gangster Land
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    30 Mar '07 19:56
    I rather like what George Bernard Shaw says on the subject:

    "Power does not corrupt men; but fools, if they get into a position of power, corrupt power."
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    30 Mar '07 19:59
    Originally posted by TheSkipper
    I rather like what George Bernard Shaw says on the subject:

    "Power does not corrupt men; but fools, if they get into a position of power, corrupt power."
    But everyone has the potential to be foolish, it's the human condition.
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    30 Mar '07 20:00
    Originally posted by Bad wolf
    That's what I thought at first, but in the other thread he said he was talking about people.

    "I'm talking about people"


    So I'm a little confused with how this would work, without God.
    How about the idea that the corruption was always present and only required the set of circumstances to reveal it?
  7. Joined
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    30 Mar '07 20:01
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    How about the idea that the corruption was always present and only required the set of circumstances to reveal it?
    Ah, that makes more sense.
  8. Gangster Land
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    30 Mar '07 20:18
    Originally posted by Bad wolf
    But everyone has the potential to be foolish, it's the human condition.
    A powerful person who happens to make a foolish decision could be said to have made a mistake, without being considered corrupt.
  9. Standard memberdj2becker
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    30 Mar '07 20:20
    Originally posted by TheSkipper
    A powerful person who happens to make a foolish decision could be said to have made a mistake, without being considered corrupt.
    On the other hand, you could say that if he was not corrupted, he would not have made a mistake.
  10. Gangster Land
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    30 Mar '07 20:23
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    On the other hand, you could say that if he was not corrupted, he would not have made a mistake.
    I'm not sure why you would assume that corrupt individuals are more prone to mistake than others. In fact, I think you might find that corrupt people are some of the most clever people, and least prone to mistake. Just look at a scam artist...
  11. Standard memberdj2becker
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    30 Mar '07 20:33
    Originally posted by TheSkipper
    I'm not sure why you would assume that corrupt individuals are more prone to mistake than others. In fact, I think you might find that corrupt people are some of the most clever people, and least prone to mistake. Just look at a scam artist...
    A person who is corrupt, by definition of the word, is more prone to making mistakes than a person who is not corrupt. But all people make mistakes, therefore all people are corrupted in some or other way. I believe it is sin that has corrupted man.
  12. Joined
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    30 Mar '07 20:35
    Originally posted by TheSkipper
    A powerful person who happens to make a foolish decision could be said to have made a mistake, without being considered corrupt.
    You basically said that power corrupts fools, everyone to a varying degree, can be considered a fool, so, you see my point?
  13. Gangster Land
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    30 Mar '07 20:37
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    A person who is corrupt, by definition of the word, is more prone to making mistakes than a person who is not corrupt.
    Does it?


    Corrupt -
    1. guilty of dishonest practices, as bribery; lacking integrity; crooked: a corrupt judge.
  14. Standard memberdj2becker
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    30 Mar '07 20:38
    Originally posted by TheSkipper
    Does it?


    Corrupt -
    1. guilty of dishonest practices, as bribery; lacking integrity; crooked: a corrupt judge.
    Would you not say that a dishonest practice is a mistake?
  15. Gangster Land
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    30 Mar '07 20:45
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Would you not say that a dishonest practice is a mistake?
    Oh! I get it! You are talking about a moral mistake where as I am talking about just a regular mistake...like putting flour in the sugar cannister.
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