1. Joined
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    11 Jul '08 22:401 edit
    What's the difference?

    Should there be?
  2. Subscriberduecer
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    11 Jul '08 22:47
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    What's the difference?

    Should there be?
    they can be the same or different depending on your approach
  3. Joined
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    11 Jul '08 22:51
    Originally posted by duecer
    they can be the same or different depending on your approach
    What are the approaches that make it different?

    What are the differences?

    Should there be a difference?
  4. Standard memberRedmike
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    11 Jul '08 23:051 edit
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    What are the approaches that make it different?

    What are the differences?

    Should there be a difference?
    Belief in a deity is a difference.

    As an atheist, I'm quite capable of meditating, but not capable of prayer.
  5. Subscriberduecer
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    11 Jul '08 23:06
    Originally posted by Redmike
    Belief in a deity is a difference.

    As an atheist, I'm quite capable of meditating, but not capable pf prayer.
    thus the approach😉
  6. weedhopper
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    11 Jul '08 23:10
    I guess I'd agree with Redmike, ToO--a prayer has and addressee; meditation as I understand it, does not.
  7. tinyurl.com/ywohm
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    11 Jul '08 23:12
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    What's the difference?

    Should there be?
    I was told that prayer is talking to God and meditation is listening to God.
  8. Joined
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    12 Jul '08 15:401 edit
    Originally posted by pawnhandler
    I was told that prayer is talking to God and meditation is listening to God.
    If meditation is "listening to God", isn't this the only essential part of the process?

    What's is the point of "talking to God" other than the "ask/answer" process being a method of meditating?
  9. Standard memberRedmike
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    12 Jul '08 16:18
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    If meditation is "listening to God", isn't this the only essential part of the process?

    What's is the point of "talking to God" other than the "ask/answer" process being a method of meditating?
    Meditation isn't listening to a god.

    It certainly isn't when I do it.
  10. Standard memberScriabin
    Done Asking
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    12 Jul '08 16:34
    google Mindfulness in Plain English -- it is an interesting, funny book designed as a how-to manual on doing what is called Insight Meditation -- that is, Vipassna Meditation, which comes from the Buddhism practiced in South Asia, orignating in what used to be called Burma.

    The book is available free in full.

    It answers the question originally posed here.
  11. Joined
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    12 Jul '08 16:491 edit
    Originally posted by Redmike
    Meditation isn't listening to a god.

    It certainly isn't when I do it.
    What is God?

    A common answer is, "God is truth".

    I don't know that it matters that one believe that there is an active agent.
  12. tinyurl.com/ywohm
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    12 Jul '08 17:57
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    If meditation is "listening to God", isn't this the only essential part of the process?

    What's is the point of "talking to God" other than the "ask/answer" process being a method of meditating?
    Frame of reference: Most of my religion/spirituality, or what stuck, is a combination of Catholicism and 12-Step Program, with some modern stuff (including Joyce Rupp and Edward M. Hays) and Thich Nhat Hanh. I do not have personal experience with other forms of religious expression. Half the time I stink at what I do know.

    That said: http://tinyurl.com/5wadyf explains the 5 forms of prayer as I was taught them, to show that it's not all about ask/answer.

    For meditation, one spiritual director said to use a mantra word (I still remember mine, although I didn't find this process very practical for me) and repeat it as you breathe in and out. This is supposed to clear your mind and thus enable you to better listen to God. I guess. It didn't work for me.
  13. Joined
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    12 Jul '08 20:41
    Originally posted by pawnhandler
    Frame of reference: Most of my religion/spirituality, or what stuck, is a combination of Catholicism and 12-Step Program, with some modern stuff (including Joyce Rupp and Edward M. Hays) and Thich Nhat Hanh. I do not have personal experience with other forms of religious expression. Half the time I stink at what I do know.

    That said: http://tinyur ...[text shortened]... lear your mind and thus enable you to better listen to God. I guess. It didn't work for me.
    "That said: http://tinyurl.com/5wadyf explains the 5 forms of prayer as I was taught them, to show that it's not all about ask/answer.

    I guess with "ask/answer" I was assuming that the motivation was truth. From what I can tell, the 5 forms of prayer are largely for the "God of Gimme" and not the "God of Truth".
  14. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    12 Jul '08 20:49
    Prayer involves training the self to be submissive and humble. It gives you something to mentally talk to, something with a very strong personality and with strong demands. Even if there is no God it seems to require a different sort of mindset. You're not quieting the mind; you're visualizing another person and then mentally interacting with that person.

    That's my impression as an atheist.
  15. Standard memberknightmeister
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    12 Jul '08 22:40
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    What is God?

    A common answer is, "God is truth".

    I don't know that it matters that one believe that there is an active agent.
    I don't know that it matters that one believe that there is an active agent. ---ToO----------

    Me thinks it definitely mattered to Jesus. His Father was defintely an active agent to him. His whole teaching is about following the will of his Father and to that end someone/ something that has a "will" is an active agent.

    "I do not act on my own , but only what I see my Father doing"

    Why do you continue to treat Jesus like some pick and mix rack who is just there for you to squeeze out of him what fits your philosophy/belief? When will you allow yourself to appreciate all of what he taught and stop wedging him in to your world view like an ill fitting jigsaw piece. You are a user of Jesus. You take bits of him here and there but don't see any obligation to take him as he really is.
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