1. Standard memberRajk999
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    10 Jul '09 11:171 edit
    Just another example of how far removed 21 century Christianity is from the original teachings of Christ. In Matt 6 Christ gave the following pointers for prayer, and a sample pray as well. How well does prayer in these modern times fit into what Christ originally taught ?


    Matt 6 : 5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
    6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
    7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
    8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
    9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
    10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
    11 Give us this day our daily bread.
    12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
    13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.



    I think I can make the following reasonable conclusions from what Christ said there (and other places):

    1. Pray to God
    2. Ask for essentials, food, health etc. Not luxury worldly goods.
    3. Ask for forgiveness.
    4. Ask for strength against temptation.
    5. Pray in secret and avoid a public show.
    6. Avoid vain repititions .. probably saying 50 Hail Marys might be a good example of a prayer to avoid.
    7. Show humility and avoid boasting.
    {Edit} 8. Ask for "..His KINGDOM and His WILL. And the praise for His glory forever and ever.".. (per Jaywill)
    9. Ask for peace in Israel.

    Certainly that list is not exhaustive and there might be other attributes of prayer that are desirable depending on the circumstances.

    Any comments ?
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    10 Jul '09 11:342 edits
    its is most admirable Raj, i would just like to add, that in Matthew chapter six, the very first thing that Christ taught his followers to pray for, was the sanctification of Gods name, now the question one should ask is, why should gods name be sanctified, who has brought it into reproach, how may we sanctify it! for it seems to me, that Christ, by stating it first, above all else, gave it prime importance. dont you think?
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    10 Jul '09 11:371 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Just another example of how far removed 21 century Christianity is from the original teachings of Christ. In Matt 6 Christ gave the following pointers for prayer, and a sample pray as well. How well does prayer in these modern times fit into what Christ originally taught ?


    [i]Matt 6 : 5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: fo ...[text shortened]... other attributes of prayer that are desirable depending on the circumstances.

    Any comments ?
    [/i]

    Amazing. You mentioned NOTHING .... NOTHING about the prayer for His KINGDOM to come and for His WILL to be done on earth.

    WHY ???
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    10 Jul '09 11:41
    Okay, to be fair, you quoted it.

    But in your summary you ignored the request for His KINGDOM and His WILL. And the praise for His glory forever and ever.

    These are crucial.
  5. Standard memberRajk999
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    10 Jul '09 11:46
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Okay, to be fair, you quoted it.

    But in your summary you ignored the request for His KINGDOM and His WILL. And the praise for His glory forever and ever.

    These are crucial.
    Agreed.

    8. Ask for "..His KINGDOM and His WILL. And the praise for His glory forever and ever.".. (per Jaywill)

    9. Ask for peace in Israel.

    Tell me if you agree with #9.

    (Note I said the list was not exhaustive)
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    10 Jul '09 11:46
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    its is most admirable Raj, i would just like to add, that in Matthew chapter six, the very first thing that Christ taught his followers to pray for, was the sanctification of Gods name, now the question one should ask is, why should gods name be sanctified, who has brought it into reproach, how may we sanctify it! for it seems to me, that Christ, by stating it first, above all else, gave it prime importance. dont you think?
    I thought I was a moron ... 🙂
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    10 Jul '09 11:471 edit
    what about the sanctification of the Holy name, the very first and most important aspect of the model prayer?

    our Father in heaven 'hollowed', or sanctified be your name.
    what is this name, Lord, no or that is not a name, God, nope that is also not a name, mmmm...onle one name springs to mind

    Pslam 83:18, now what does that say............
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    10 Jul '09 11:48
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I thought I was a moron ... 🙂
    you are but we make exceptions for you.
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    10 Jul '09 11:48
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    its is most admirable Raj, i would just like to add, that in Matthew chapter six, the very first thing that Christ taught his followers to pray for, was the sanctification of Gods name, now the question one should ask is, why should gods name be sanctified, who has brought it into reproach, how may we sanctify it! for it seems to me, that Christ, by stating it first, above all else, gave it prime importance. dont you think?
    Yes. Its important to address God first.
    What is your opinion on praying to Mary.
    Would you equate it with idol worship - as some do?
    I think I will not do that.
    My view is that its not a recommended practice but I will not call it idol worship.
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    10 Jul '09 11:513 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Yes. Its important to address God first.
    What is your opinion on praying to Mary.
    Would you equate it with idol worship - as some do?
    I think I will not do that.
    My view is that its not a recommended practice but I will not call it idol worship.
    yes my friend, but what is the name, It cannot be God, for that is not a name, nor Lord, how can you sanctify the name without knowing what it is, for Christ himself clearly stated, that he had made Gods name, manifest to his followers.

    but to answer your question, Mary worship as far as I am aware was the result of the church portraying God as a cruel and vindictive God, thus an intercessor was needed to plead the adherents cause on his or her behalf, to soften the face of God if you like, to plead their case in front of an athorative God.
  11. Standard memberRajk999
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    10 Jul '09 12:02
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    yes my friend, but what is the name, It cannot be God, for that is not a name, nor Lord, how can you sanctify the name without knowing what it is, for Christ himself clearly stated, that he had made Gods name, manifest to his followers.

    but to answer your question, Mary worship as far as I am aware was the result of the church portraying God as a ...[text shortened]... ehalf, to soften the face of God if you like, to plead their case in front of an athorative God.
    Yes, the name of God is Jehovah.
    God also said his name is 'I AM'.

    Are you suggesting that its wrong, or sinful, to start a prayer with
    " Our Father" or "Heavenly Father" or " Dear God" .. or any equivalent?
  12. Standard memberRajk999
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    10 Jul '09 12:02
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    yes my friend, but what is the name, It cannot be God, for that is not a name, nor Lord, how can you sanctify the name without knowing what it is, for Christ himself clearly stated, that he had made Gods name, manifest to his followers.

    but to answer your question, Mary worship as far as I am aware was the result of the church portraying God as a ...[text shortened]... ehalf, to soften the face of God if you like, to plead their case in front of an athorative God.
    Actually you did not answer the question .. 🙂
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    10 Jul '09 12:03
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Yes, the name of God is Jehovah.
    God also said his name is 'I AM'.

    Are you suggesting that its wrong, or sinful, to start a prayer with
    " Our Father" or "Heavenly Father" or " Dear God" .. or any equivalent?
    no, i am not saying that at all, infact you could start it, heavenly father of the celestial lights and it would still be biblical.
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    10 Jul '09 12:04
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Actually you did not answer the question .. 🙂
    yes it clearly idolatrous.
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    10 Jul '09 12:14
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Agreed.

    8. Ask for "..His KINGDOM and His WILL. And the praise for His glory forever and ever.".. (per Jaywill)

    9. Ask for peace in Israel.

    Tell me if you agree with #9.

    (Note I said the list was not exhaustive)
    You did say that it was not an exhaustive list.

    And of course we should pray for the peace of Israel.

    And while we are at it let us also pray for the peace of Trenton New Jersey.

    Seriously, I do pray for the peace of Israel and for the spread of the Gospel of Christ in the whole Middle East.
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