Prayer

Originally posted by darvlay
C'mon now, I don't insult you every post. More like every other post. 😛

I find prayer to be an absurd notion for the reasons I stated in my response. That's nice that you and chinking can have your little conversations with God and feel affirmed, etc. I have no issue with that. Hell, if it feels nice don't think twice. But the absurdity ...[text shortened]... . I've done my part to bring it back online. Do you still wish to end the discussion? 🙂

Isaiah 59:

1 Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: 2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Does this maybe ring a bell?

Originally posted by bbarr
You were bleeding to death from having your tonsils out? You are flat-out lying to us, aren't you? "My parents got on their knees and prayed so earnestly..."?

Whatever.

Post-tonsillectomy hemmoraging occurs in about 2.7% of people (~ 1 in 36) who undergo a tonsillectomy. The chances of dying from PTH are 1 in 15,000. That means several hundreds of PTH complications (uncontrolable bleeding requiring further surgery) are eventually brought under control by the Surgeon.

He may not be lying if he believes it to be true. I'm more partial to believe that it was just a BIG OL' COINCIDENCE.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Isaiah 59:

1 Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: 2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Does this maybe ring a bell?

What about it?

Are you saying that those people who don't have their prayers answered are not actually Christians? How long do you have to pray in futility for the same thing before you realize that your prayers won't be answered and can thus deduce that you are in need of saving (yet again) ?

Originally posted by bbarr
You were bleeding to death from having your tonsils out? You are flat-out lying to us, aren't you? "My parents got on their knees and prayed so earnestly..."?

Whatever.

My Dad's only brother bled to death when he had his tonsils removed. I suppose it is a genetic thing.

Originally posted by darvlay
What about it?

Are you saying that those people who don't have their prayers answered are not actually Christians? How long do you have to pray in futility for the same thing before you realize that your prayers won't be answered and can thus deduce that you are in need of saving (yet again) ?

Nope. They may be Christians but have sin in their lives. Our sins create a barrier between us and God and thus he cannot hear. All we have to do is to confess our sins .If we bring our sins to the light we can restore the broken connection:

1 John 1:5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Originally posted by dj2becker
Nope. They may be Christians but have sin in their lives. Our sins create a barrier between us and God and thus he cannot hear.

Sorry. I am used to the RBHILL's def'n of Christian:

Christian with sin = Sinner = Damned = Non-Christian

That aside, what you said did not mean a whole lot to this discussion. You believe that there is scripture which explicitly states that God answers prayers. Okay, I understand. Big deal. You still have not addressed why God ignores 99.99999% of prayers and "answers" an infinitesmal amount of requests? Could it be that all those who are praying are actually estranged and don't know it? If what happens is "God's Will" then why pray for anything at all?

God does NOT answer ANY prayers period.

Originally posted by dj2becker
If we bring our sins to the light we can restore the broken connection:

1 John 1:5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in t ...[text shortened]... , he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Nice edit. Can't get away posting in a thread without one misplaced message of repentance, can ya?

Originally posted by darvlay
Sorry. I am used to the RBHILL's def'n of Christian:

Christian with sin = Sinner = Damned = Non-Christian

That aside, what you said did not mean a whole lot to this discussion. You believe that there is scripture which explicitly states that God answers prayers. Okay, I understand. Big deal. You still have not addressed why God ignores 99.99999% ...[text shortened]... is "God's Will" then why pray for anything at all?

God does NOT answer ANY prayers period.

Are you refering to your prayers or all prayers in general?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Are you refering to your prayers or all prayers in general?

God does NOT answer ANY prayers period.

What don't you understand about this simple sentence? Better explain it anyway - I'm talking about ALL prayers. Yours, mine, his, hers, your parents in the hospital, Mother Theresa, the Pope, pastors, reverends, priests, bishops, cardinals, nuns, straight Christians, gay Christians, Contemporary Christian recording artists, Christian boy bands, Catholics, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Unitarians, Lutherans, effin' Greek Orthodox Christians, etc., etc. and so on unto infinity.

Now can you please stop skirting around my questions?

Originally posted by darvlay
To think that God would rather spend his extensive resources curing one child from leukemia than feeding a continent of starving children (which someone must be praying for!) is irrational and completely unfathomable for a supposed God of Love.

I have even heard someone claim that god had heard her prayers and let her pass an exam she wasn't very well prepared for. It's amazing how egocentric people can be, or how selective in what they choose to see and remember. One of the most tasteless examples I have seen was at my great-uncle's funeral (strictly speaking this example doesn't involve prayer, so feel free to throw mud at me). The priest recalled significant events in my great-uncle's life (who, by the way, was a priest himself). One of these events was in World War II, when a bomb fell on their house. According to the priest, god saved my great-uncle in order to let him fulfill his purpose in life. He failed to mention that one of my great-uncle's daughters, a child, was killed by that bomb. I guess god didn't have any use for her.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Nope. They may be Christians but have sin in their lives. Our sins create a barrier between us and God and thus he cannot hear.

Now wait a minute... "Thus he cannot hear"?? How do you reconcile this with god's supposed omniscience and omnipotence?

Originally posted by Nordlys
Now wait a minute... "Thus he [b]cannot hear"?? How do you reconcile this with god's supposed omniscience and omnipotence?[/b]

Good point, Nardlys.

"Cannot hear" does not equal "Chooses to ignore".

Originally posted by darvlay
God does [b]NOT answer ANY prayers period.

What don't you understand about this simple sentence? Better explain it anyway - I'm talking about ALL prayers. Yours, mine, his, hers, your parents in the hospital, ...[text shortened]... infinity.

Now can you please stop skirting around my questions?[/b]

The point I am trying to make is that you are simply making general statement with nothing to back it up with.

By making these statements you are saying that you know everything that there is to know. So basically you are implying that you are God and that you know everything.

By the way there are so many books written about prayers that HAVE BEEN answered. So my advice is find some and read some before you make such generalised statements again.

So I don't think I need to waste more time here.

PS: I am writting a Physics exam 2morrow so I'll rather go and study.

Originally posted by dj2becker
The point I am trying to make is that you are simply making general statement with nothing to back it up with.

By making these statements you are saying that you know everything that there is to know. So basically you are implying tha ...[text shortened]... I am writting a Physics exam 2morrow so I'll rather go and study.

I agree, you should spend more time studying for your exam.

BUT, this is not a general statement. I have been raised in a church and I have seen fervent prayer from the congregation, many of my peers at the time as well as family members.

Are you saying that when Christians pray, those prayers are always answered? (Hell, I'll be satisfied with mostly answered!) And if they are not answered, they are estranged from God?

What about all those people who were praying for Terri Schiavo? Were those prayers not earnest?

Ask and ye shall receive, right?

COINCIDENCE.

By the way, be sure and pray that God is with you during your examination. I'm not sure if it's cheating at your college to have third-party assistance like it is here at RHP but who's gonna know, right? 😉

Just one more thing, dj2... in your opinion, are you currently choosing to ignore me or can you not hear me?