Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the case of Brazilian footballer Kaka is quite interesting, when he was a kid he suffered a terrible accident which seriously hurt his back, i am not sure if he was facing being paralyzed, yet he recovered and became an awesome player. He is a very religious man and thus attributes his success to divine intervention and celebrates by pointing to the sky as testimony of his giving glory to God for his success.

The flip side is
what does god think about the people he leaves paralyzed?

I think any sensible theist has to accept one of two points of view;

1. God does intervene on a personal level
(they must then accept the logical consequences for those that pray and still suffer)

OR

2. God does not intervene on a personal level
(in which case praying is pointless)

I'm sure someone can put it better than that but you get the gist.

Originally posted by CalJust
My question is always: "Whose side do they think god is on?"

Before Waterloo Wellington was asked "Is God on our side"
to which Wellington replied
"I sincerely hope that we are on his."

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
nah it really is a religious thing, superstitious even, players regularly cross themselves before matches, you should know that.

i do know that. and i find it insulting and selfish.


i do not pray to god. sometimes i ask god to hold my beer and watch me do something.


as long as there is suffering in the world, and we know god doesn't do anything about that, asking him to bend the rules just for a stupid game is the height of selfishness.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
The flip side is
what does god think about the people he leaves paralyzed?

I think any sensible theist has to accept one of two points of view;

1. God does intervene on a personal level
(they must then accept the logical consequences for those that pray and still suffer)

OR

2. God does not intervene on a personal level
(in which case praying is pointless)

I'm sure someone can put it better than that but you get the gist.

Personally i dont think its divine intervention, for it can be demonstrated that miraculous healing were destined to cease.

You make no mention of a third line of thought, in that God intervenes spiritually, rather than physically, so while he may not miraculously take away a malady, he may impart strength to cope with it. such an occasion is well documented in the scriptures by the apostle Paul who has a serious eye ailment and who implored God through prayer to remove it, yet it remained. He came to the realization, that he had more than enough compensation in the mercy that he had been shown as one who formerly persecuted Christians and that God would comfort him spiritually in his tribulation.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
i do know that. and i find it insulting and selfish.


i do not pray to god. sometimes i ask god to hold my beer and watch me do something.


as long as there is suffering in the world, and we know god doesn't do anything about that, asking him to bend the rules just for a stupid game is the height of selfishness.

I dont think you fully understand what is at stake, a football players career is relatively short, if he gets injured prematurely his career may be over, who will look after his wife and children? thus its hardly selfish to ask god to bless you in your chosen endeavor, even if it is as a professional sportsperson, for while the rewards are high for those who succeed, the specter of failure is ever present for the less fortunate.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I dont think you fully understand what is at stake, a football players career is relatively short, if he gets injured prematurely his career may be over, who will look after his wife and children? thus its hardly selfish to ask god to bless you in your chosen endeavor, even if it is as a professional sportsperson, for while the rewards are high for those who succeed, the specter of failure is ever present for the less fortunate.

hopefully, you are sarcastic.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
hopefully, you are sarcastic.

no I am not, many the young mas whose sporting career has been cut short due to injury.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I dont think you fully understand what is at stake, a football players career is relatively short, if he gets injured prematurely his career may be over, who will look after his wife and children? thus its hardly selfish to ask god to bless you in your chosen endeavor, even if it is as a professional sportsperson, for while the rewards are high for those who succeed, the specter of failure is ever present for the less fortunate.

What about the footballer on the opposing team?

Originally posted by CalJust
In the same way, I think god is on the side of the team that has the best players and strategy!

By making this statement are you not making the same mistake as the people you are complaining about? Why assume God supports any of the teams? What does he do with his support? Does he cheer? Does he assist? Does he stay out of the way? Why would he not support a team that is not the best? Does he only like winners? Does he cheat and check the future before deciding who to support?

Originally posted by CalJust
Here is a pet peeve of mine, and one that never fails to annoy me when I see it on TV: sports teams and individuals praying publicly before and after an event.

What are they saying? Perhaps: "Please God, help me to crush my opponent, please don't let me lose!"

Or, before a boxing bout: "Please help me to hit this guy where it hurts the most! Please let ...[text shortened]... e to know from some Christians (say, sonship, KoP) how you see this practice.

In peace

CJ

Well do not assume that is what they are praying about, winning or for that
matter crushing anyone. It could also be that prayers are for safety, good
sportsmanship, that they do their very best. Just because they believe they
should acknowledge God in all their ways, so they pray before and after
events doesn't mean they are out to crush anyone. I'm sure others will find
fault, because there are always others who find fault.

Why assume the worse?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Well do not assume that is what they are praying about, winning or for that
matter crushing anyone. It could also be that prayers are for safety, good
sportsmanship, that they do their very best. Just because they believe they
should acknowledge God in all their ways, so they pray before and after
events doesn't mean they are out to crush anyone. I'm su ...[text shortened]... ill find
fault, because there are always others who find fault.

Why assume the worse?
Kelly

Yep; the footballer who crosses himself before taking a
penalty is asking god to prevent the goalkeeper from injury.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Yep; the footballer who crosses himself before taking a
penalty is asking god to prevent the goalkeeper from injury.

I was raised as a protestant Christian and so was never taught how to do the sign of the cross or the purpose of it. Perhaps if we have any Catholics here, they may be able to inform us on that ritual gesture and the meaning of it.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I was raised as a protestant Christian and so was never taught how to do the sign of the cross or the purpose of it. Perhaps if we have any Catholics here, they may be able to inform us on that ritual gesture and the meaning of it.

Maybe you could make a guess....

Originally posted by wolfgang59
The flip side is
what does god think about the people he leaves paralyzed?

I think any sensible theist has to accept one of two points of view;

1. God does intervene on a personal level
(they must then accept the logical consequences for those that pray and still suffer)

OR

2. God does not intervene on a personal level
(in which case praying is pointless)

I'm sure someone can put it better than that but you get the gist.

In this life we will have tribulation, good things will happen to us and bad
things happen to us. It is no different than when the sun shines on people
it shines on both the good and the bad, the same is true with the rain. So
when either occur it is just life, it does not mean God favors one over the
next guy. We thank God for all things in this life, for this is the will of God
in our lives and it doesn't just mean those things we like or we feel are
good things.

Praying for wealth and riches seems to me like trying to use God just as
someone who uses witchcraft to get some dark/light force in their opinion
to help them get what they want when they want it. Just as asking God to
make someone love them, it is attempting to get God do something to
force another to bend their will into something they may not desire.

Being content in God is one of the most blessed things you can be, so that
lust for anything power, money, position are meaningless to you.

Praying for a good game where everyone is safe and our attitudes are what
they should be is more about asking God to keep us in a good place with
Him and the world.
Kelly