31 Jan 06
forgive me if this is already a thread, but i haven't checked. I am wishing to know (mainly from christian perspectives, but others are very welcome), why Jesus prayed.
Jesus was god in human form (according to my RE teacher, so if i'm wrong, this thread is pointless). So why did he pray to God? As god would have been him, therefore he would have been praying to himself. What are your views?
31 Jan 06
As God, Christ's suffering had infinite value. Thus, He did not need to endure the agonies of the Passion in order to satisfy justice and redeem mankind's offenses against God. Any slight pain or humiliation He suffered would have been sufficient. I believe, even the sacrifice of taking on human nature would have been enough. Instead, He chose to live for many years among men and suffer horrible crucifixion in order to reveal many truths which we would otherwise discern with difficulty. One thing He made manifest was the proper relationship between God and man, and the role of prayer in that relationship. He did not need to pray, but He came to give us an example of holiness, and prayer is an important part of piety.
31 Jan 06
Originally posted by i am scientistsThis is yet another "trinity" question. The best way I can explain it is that you are made in the image of God. You to are a triune being but yet one person. You are body, soul, and spirit. You know this is true but yet you cannot explain it. How then can we explain the holy trinity? Does your body ever talk to you? Do you ever talk to yourself? This is the best way I can describe what is occuring when Jesus prays to the father.
forgive me if this is already a thread, but i haven't checked. I am wishing to know (mainly from christian perspectives, but others are very welcome), why Jesus prayed.
Jesus was god in human form (according to my RE teacher, so if i'm wrong, this thread is pointless). So why did he pray to God? As god would have been him, therefore he would have been praying to himself. What are your views?
01 Feb 06
Originally posted by RaindearDo not play lightly with infinity. Surely as God is capable of infinite suffering then the suffering of Jesus was infinitely negligible to him?
As God, Christ's suffering had infinite value.
My view has always been that the suffering of Jesus can never be justly compared to the suffering of another human being as:
1. Jesus knew he would rise again and therefore had no fear of death.
2. He knew what was going to happen and that he was not going to change it.
01 Feb 06
Originally posted by RaindearBrilliant post. Well written. Kudos!
As God, Christ's suffering had infinite value. Thus, He did not need to endure the agonies of the Passion in order to satisfy justice and redeem mankind's offenses against God. Any slight pain or humiliation He suffered would have been sufficient. I believe, even the sacrifice of taking on human nature would have been enough. Instead, He chose to live f ...[text shortened]... pray, but He came to give us an example of holiness, and prayer is an important part of piety.
01 Feb 06
Originally posted by whodeyWhy not use St.Patrick's device which helped him convert Ireland to Christianity, and find a shamrock somewhere near you?
This is yet another "trinity" question. The best way I can explain it is that you are made in the image of God. You to are a triune being but yet one person. You are body, soul, and spirit. You know this is true but yet you cannot explain it. How then can we explain the holy trinity? Does your body ever talk to you? Do you ever talk to yourself? This is the best way I can describe what is occuring when Jesus prays to the father.
01 Feb 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadJesus was both God and Man. I am no expert, but I think that is rather important in understanding the Faith. Christ is in one sense humanity, and who among us does not fear death?
Do not play lightly with infinity. Surely as God is capable of infinite suffering then the suffering of Jesus was infinitely negligible to him?
My view has always been that the suffering of Jesus can never be justly compared to the suffering of another human being as:
1. Jesus knew he would rise again and therefore had no fear of death.
2. He knew what was going to happen and that he was not going to change it.
But His suffering cannot be compared to any human suffering, in that I think you are correct. He suffered for us as both Man and God.
The Gospels show us that Jesus knew something of what lay in store for Him, but do not His last words show that He had in no way forseen everything as you suggest?
sjeg
01 Feb 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadCertainly!
Should true believers fear death, that does not make sense at all !
I actually did some serious research on martyrdom and the persecution of Christians (mostly under the emperor Decius).
Any true believer would always fear death, naturally. It's a change in state, and it can bring great suffering.
I'd personally argue that a true believer would put one's faith in Christ, but not in order to obtain salvation, or the keys to the Kingdom, but that's just my view.
Christ was human, but his suffering as discussed above, is incomprehensible to us. And even He had a moment of doubt. that's the way I understand it, anyway.
01 Feb 06
1 edit
Should true believers fear death?Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Apcryphon of James: "In truth I say to you, none of those who are afraid of death will be saved."
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01 Feb 06
Originally posted by i am scientistsBecause the bible says Jesus is the Son of God and not God, there is no trinity in the bible and Jesus prayed for the Father to take away the crucifiction if at all possible. Of course the rest is history.
forgive me if this is already a thread, but i haven't checked. I am wishing to know (mainly from christian perspectives, but others are very welcome), why Jesus prayed.
Jesus was god in human form (according to my RE teacher, so if i'm wrong, this thread is pointless). So why did he pray to God? As god would have been him, therefore he would have been praying to himself. What are your views?
02 Feb 06
Originally posted by checkbaiterYou are correct in that the word trinity is not in the Bible. However, the Biblical implication that he is God is found in many places. I think the best place to see this is the first chapter of the gospel of John. It says that in the begining was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word WAS God. Then it goes on to say that Christ was God's Word incarnate. There is not getting around the implication here. God's word is merely an extension of himself. It is not a seperate entity but are one in the same.
Because the bible says Jesus is the Son of God and not God, there is no trinity in the bible and Jesus prayed for the Father to take away the crucifiction if at all possible. Of course the rest is history.
Also when Jesus was condemned to crucifixion, why was he condemned? Was it not for blasphemy because he claimed to be the Son of God. The Jewish leaders knew the implication here as well. Christ was making himself equal to God.