Originally posted by StarrmanSince he knows this and it is all predestined, how is it a choice for us?
Being omniscient entails knowing all there is to know, past, present and future. He would already be aware of who is and who isn't going to hell. Since he knows this and it is all predestined, how is it a choice for us?
If you claim we have that choice, then you are also claiming god is not omniscient.
Just because God might know about something, don't mean we didn't choose it and God didn't nudge in the right direction...
Hang on, if Calvin followed these:
Unconditional election. This doctrine is more commonly known as arbitrary, individual "predestination" or "foreordination." Calvin asserted that God arbitrarily elected, or chose, certain individuals to be saved before they were even born. This He did merely on the basis of "His good pleasure" - not because of anything they had done; hence, "unconditional election." This number of elect individuals is so fixed that it can be neither increased nor diminished. This doctrine (1) denies man's free will (Jn. 7:17), (2) denies man's role in his salvation (Phil. 2:12; Jas. 2:24), (3) makes God a respecter of persons (Acts 10:34,35), and (4) denies God's desire that all men be saved (I Tim. 2:4; II Pet. 3:9; Ezek. 18:23,32). God predestines the saved only in that he predestines them to meet certain conditions (Rom. 8:29; Eph. 1:4-6).
Limited atonement. Since only certain individuals were to be saved, there was no need for Christ to die for the non-elect. Hence, Calvin taught that Christ died to atone for the sins of the elect only. This is plainly contrary to what the Scriptures teach. Christ died for all men, including non-believers (I Tim. 4:10; Tit. 2:11; II Pet. 2:1; I Jn. 2:2).
Irresistible grace. According to Calvin, men are so depraved that they cannot do anything to effect their salvation. This is wholly the work of God. Man has no co-operant part in his salvation. God sends the Holy Spirit to work directly and supernaturally upon the heart of the sinner to work faith and repentance in him irresistibly. The elect, then, are literally forced to be saved. This doctrine is untrue because it (1) denies man's free will (Jn. 7:17), (2) the Holy Spirit can be resisted (Acts 7:51; I Thess. 5:19), (3) the word of God provokes men to repentance (Lk. 8:12; 16:27-31; Rom. 10:17), and (4) God employs human preachers to convert men's souls (Acts 8-10).
What is the point in believing in god at all? Am I missing something?
Originally posted by StarrmanFor a in depth explanation and refutation of Predestination see:
Hang on, if Calvin followed these:
[b]Unconditional election. This doctrine is more commonly known as arbitrary, individual "predestination" or "foreordination." Calvin asserted that God arbitrarily elected, or chose, certain individuals to be saved before they were even born. This He did merely on the basis of "His good pleasure" - not beca ...[text shortened]... souls (Acts 8-10).
What is the point in believing in god at all? Am I missing something?[/b]
http://www.biblehelp.org/whatsel.htm
Originally posted by HalitoseBenevolent means that he wants good, right? Omnibenevolent means he wants only good, and he wants it as much as it is possible to want good? Is that correct?
He is omniscient but not omnibenevolent. If he was omnibenevolent all murders, rapists and er... ehm.. (*Halitose takes aim and lobs boulder at hornets nest*) fornicators would be assured of a place in heaven. We get what we choose.
Originally posted by StarrmanWhat is the point in believing in god at all? Am I missing something?
i don't think you are missing anything; i don't get it either. i also don't think there would be any point in witnessing to others -- what possible effect could one's spreading the word have?