Predestination

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Calvin's notions have a rigorously absurd quality that remind me of noone so much as Samuel Beckett.

'rigorously absurd' strikes me as a perfect characterization of calvin's notions.

Originally posted by LemonJello
'rigorously absurd' strikes me as a perfect characterization of calvin's notions.

Beckett's work, like J.M. Coetzee's, is steeped in Calvinism. His play "End Game" is the most ferociously nihilistic thing I have read. Imagine a surgeon cutting while on laughing gas.

Originally posted by Starrman
Hang on, if Calvin followed these:

[b]Unconditional election. This doctrine is more commonly known as arbitrary, individual "predestination" or "foreordination." Calvin asserted that God arbitrarily elected, or chose, certain individuals to be saved before they were even born. This He did merely on the basis of "His good pleasure" - not beca ...[text shortened]... souls (Acts 8-10).

What is the point in believing in god at all? Am I missing something?[/b]

I suppose the point is to believe what the Bible teaches.

Originally posted by dj2becker
I suppose the point is to believe what the Bible teaches.

I guess you don't eat pork.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I guess you don't eat pork.

Ever read about Peter's vision?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Ever read about Peter's vision?

I'm sure you understand my point.

Originally posted by LemonJello
[b]What is the point in believing in god at all? Am I missing something?

i don't think you are missing anything; i don't get it either. i also don't think there would be any point in witnessing to others -- what possible effect could one's spreading the word have?[/b]

Was Calvin ever taken to task over his views by anyone prominent enough to make it transcripted? I'd love to know how he became so (in)famous with such a ridiculous set of self cancelling beliefs. I mean do people still follow this guy?

Originally posted by Starrman
Was Calvin ever taken to task over his views by anyone prominent enough to make it transcripted? I'd love to know how he became so (in)famous with such a ridiculous set of self cancelling beliefs. I mean do people still follow this guy?

If I remember correctly Martin Luther had a profound disagreement with him.

Originally posted by Starrman
Was Calvin ever taken to task over his views by anyone prominent enough to make it transcripted? I'd love to know how he became so (in)famous with such a ridiculous set of self cancelling beliefs. I mean do people still follow this guy?

I don't know if this will answer your question, but it should give you some insight into a particular mentality:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaner_Calvinism

Originally posted by Starrman
Was Calvin ever taken to task over his views by anyone prominent enough to make it transcripted? I'd love to know how he became so (in)famous with such a ridiculous set of self cancelling beliefs. I mean do people still follow this guy?

Cut and paste job. Insightful nonetheless.

Early Calvinism differed from Lutheranism in its rejection of consubstantiation regarding the sacrament of the Lord's Supper, in its rigid doctrine of predestination, in its notion of grace as irresistible, and in its theocratic view of the state. Luther believed in the political subordination of the church to the state; Calvinism produced the church-dominated societies of Geneva and Puritan New England. Calvinism, stressing the absolute sovereignty of God's will, held that only those whom God specifically elects are saved, that this election is irresistible, and that individuals can do nothing to effect this salvation. This strict Calvinism was challenged by Jacobus Arminius, whose more moderate views were adopted by the Methodists and the Baptists. Calvinism challenged Lutheranism throughout Europe, spread to Scotland, influenced the Puritans of England, and received its expression in the United States in the modified New England theology of the elder Jonathan Edwards. The doctrinal aspects of Calvinism receded under the rationalism of the 18th and 19th cent. In more recent times, however, in the Reformed theology of Karl Barth, the Calvinist stress on the sovereignty of God found new and vital expression.

Originally posted by Halitose
Cut and paste job. Insightful nonetheless.

Early Calvinism differed from Lutheranism in its rejection of consubstantiation regarding the sacrament of the Lord's Supper, in its rigid doctrine of predestination, in its notion of grace as irresistible, and in its theocratic view of the state. Luther believed in the political subordination of the church to ...[text shortened]... gy of Karl Barth, the Calvinist stress on the sovereignty of God found new and vital expression.

You gotta admit. predestination kills the concept of free will AND/OR temptation....like why bother.
done deal, is final , that's that

Originally posted by frogstomp
You gotta admit. predestination kills the concept of free will AND/OR temptation....like why bother.
done deal, is final , that's that

It has a lot in common with the Bogomils.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I'm sure you understand my point.

But do you understand mine?

Originally posted by dj2becker
But do you understand mine?

I should think so.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I should think so.

I should hope so 😉