Progressive revelation

Originally posted by vistesd
[Daniel 9:24?

Daniel 9:20 While I was speaking, and was praying and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God on behalf of the holy mountain of my God-- 21 while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen before in a vision, came to me in swift flight at the time of the evening sa This was far more important for the Jewish followers of Jesus than for many of the gentiles.[/b]

Yes, I meant to say Daniel 9:24-27. When one looks at the prophesy one is at a loss in how to interpret the timetable mentioned. Therefore, it takes those who the knowledge to do so. Some have caluculated the timetable as leading to the time of the first coming of the Messiah and others have refuted such speculation. However, I dare say no one speculates that the person in question mentioned is the Messiah or annointed one in which the timetable concerns itself. Having said that, who then do we look to in order to interpret the prophesy? Do we look to Chrisitian theologins who have a personal bias or do we look to those who refute the Bible as being God's word and calculate the verse to mean something else who also have a personal bias? I say either source is questionable. We could, however, look to Jewish scholars and rabbis who were closer contemporaries of Christ and Daniel than we. In fact, in the Talmud hundreds of years after the time of Christ rabbis wrote that they interpreted Daniel to mean that the Messiah should have arrived at the time when Christ walked the earth. However, since they rejected him as Messiah because he had not yet fulfilled all of the prophesies concerning him, they concluded that he delayed his coming due to the sinfulness of Israel.

In fact, in the 17th century a man by the name of Leopold Cohn was born into an Orthodox Jewish community in Hungry and later studied to be a rabbi and became a rabbi. Curiously, one of his rituals was to repeat the 12th article in the Jewish creed which is, "I believe with a perfect faith in the coming of the Messiah, and though he tarry, yet will I wait daily for his coming". Cohn, however, wondered why the Messiah tarried, but was unsettled by the answers such as the prophesy of Daniel which pointed to the time of Christ and indicated by the ancient writings in the Talmud. As he began to ask questions, however, he was warned to leave well enough alone and not to pursue in asking questions, that is as long as he wished to continue being a rabbi. To make a long story short, Cohn forsook his profession as a rabbi and later became one of the founders of the Jewish Messianic movement in modern times.

Those Biblical "prophesies" are no more descriptive than the daily horoscopes. It's a total joke; you simply pour your pre-conceived beliefs into those empty cups.

Originally posted by whodey
Yes, I meant to say Daniel 9:24-27. When one looks at the prophesy one is at a loss in how to interpret the timetable mentioned. Therefore, it takes those who the knowledge to do so. Some have caluculated the timetable as leading to the time of the first coming of the Messiah and others have refuted such speculation. However, I dare say no one speculates ...[text shortened]... rabbi and later became one of the founders of the Jewish Messianic movement in modern times.

http://www.alislam.org/library/links/missing.html

You might find this interesting. Unfortunately, after all the research, the guy came to the wrong conclusion.

Originally posted by whodey
Can you expand on what you mean when you say that the authority to follow in such matters is the Word instead of the interpretations, messangers etc.?

And why not listen to the Word directly, instead of grubbing for it in some book?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
And why not listen to the Word directly, instead of grubbing for it in some book?

And miss the chance to use his secret decoder ring?

Originally posted by Starrman
And miss the chance to use his secret decoder ring?

The question being what sort of ears one might need to listen.

Invoking the Word was what the early Christians did, or so I'm told. The Logos thing was what the Hellenistic Greeks particularly enjoyed about their not so completely new-fangled faith. The Gospel of John.

What would the Word say to a non Xian?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
The question being what sort of ears one might need to listen.

Invoking the Word was what the early Christians did, or so I'm told. The Logos thing was what the Hellenistic Greeks particularly enjoyed about their not so completely new-fangled faith. The Gospel of John.

What would the Word say to a non Xian?

Probably something along the lines of 'Isn't the universe a wonderful thing? Go out and make the most of it'.

Originally posted by Starrman
'Isn't the universe a wonderful thing? Go out and make the most of it'.

--Are you kidding? The universe is an absurd carnival of carnage, fear and pain, utterly devoid of justice for a start. If I go out to enjoy myself as you suggest and get seriously mugged on the way to the pub, am I supposed to comfort myself from my hospital bed with the thought of the stars I can't see outside the window, blotted out as they are by smog? Wonderful?! Have you listened to Morrissey in the past ten years...I don't think you are any sort of Word at all.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
--Are you kidding? The universe is an absurd carnival of carnage, fear and pain, utterly devoid of justice for a start. If I go out to enjoy myself as you suggest and get seriously mugged on the way to the pub, am I supposed to comfort myself from my hospital bed with the thought of the stars I can't see outside the window, blotted out as they are by s ...[text shortened]... u listened to Morrissey in the past ten years...I don't think you are any sort of Word at all.

That's exactly why I love it, it's got character and it doesn't pull any punches. Without that to fight against to find any beauty or peace the rewards would be lacklustre.

Originally posted by Starrman
That's exactly why I love it, it's got character and it doesn't pull any punches. Without that to fight against to find any beauty or peace the rewards would be lacklustre.

I have heard similar arguments justifying God allowing Adam to fall for the benefit of his spiritual development, until Jesus came along to perfect the process. O felix culpa!

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I have heard similar arguments justifying God allowing Adam to fall for the benefit of his spiritual development, until Jesus came along to perfect the process. O felix culpa!

I'm not going to try anything like that, in my world you're on your own. The word is a single statement, it's up to you what you do with it.

Contender, you will go on my first whistle!

Originally posted by Starrman
I'm not going to try anything like that, in my world you're on your own. The word is a single statement, it's up to you what you do with it.

Contender, you will go on my first whistle!

Ear of gold Eye of glass Heart of tin
Captain's courageous or drunk,
pass the spoon

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
...an absurd carnival of carnage, fear and pain, utterly devoid of justice

Are you sure you're not confusing it with the Eurovision Song Contest?

Originally posted by dottewell
Are you sure you're not confusing it with the Eurovision Song Contest?

It's all part of the Spectacle, bro...

Can I interest you in a second-hand beret redolent of cheroot smoke?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Do you see having a single "country", so to speak, as being the final destination? Currently within a given country, there may exist a structural unity, but whatever spiritual unity there is is sorely lacking. Wouldn't having a single country likely get us more of the same?

Unity of the planet as one country indicates a level of maturity, one that signals our readiness for growth. This by no means is the end of the line. Baha'u'llah calls humanity an ever-advancing civilization. This advancement is to occur in cycles. The Baha'i revelation claims to have closed the "Adamic Cycle" and opened a new cycle of revelation.

A Revelation hailed as the promise and crowning glory of past ages and centuries, as the consummation of all the Dispensations within the Adamic Cycle, inaugurating an era of at least a thousand years' duration, and a cycle destined to last no less than five thousand centuries, signalizing the end of the Prophetic Era and the beginning of the Era of Fulfillment...

It is not clear if there were any cycles before the Adamic cycle, but this new cycle should last five thousand centuries after which a new cycle will begin. Within these five thousand centuries, I believe a Messenger is expected every one thousand years.

So we are taking our fist baby steps in our ever advancing journey towards God. God did not create this infinite universe just for fun. I believe we are going to finally get off our back sides and start exploring it.
I must add that this is my INTERPRETATION of the Bahá’í writings. Knowing how dangerous it is to follow other people’s interpretations, I suggest you do what Baha’u’llah prescribe: Independent Investigation of Truth. There are no Mullah’s, Rabbis, Priests, Pundits, or Clergy in the Bahá’í Faith. Baha’u’llah believes we are mature enough to find thing for ourselves.