16 Jun '14 14:53>
Perhaps I missed something but ... when can we see the proof of the supernatural as you promised?
Originally posted by twhiteheadReally ?? when is the last time you or I for that matter seen anyone walk on water? It would supersede natural because it is not natural for humans to be able to walk on water therefore I conclude that it is indeed supernatural or whatever label you want to assign to it but it would not be normal
No, it would not be supernatural. It would be unusual. Your choice to attribute it to the supernatural either is arbitrary or based on religious reasons - but not on a particular feature of the phenomena in question. There is nothing about the act that you can point to that marks it as supernatural without pointing to claims by someone that it was superna ...[text shortened]... en the first computer would be supernatural, as would the first car, and just about every first.
Originally posted by menace71When is the last time you saw someone run 100m in under 10 seconds? The first time you see someone do that, it is clearly not normal. It is not, however, supernatural. Being not normal is not the same thing as being supernatural.
Really ?? when is the last time you or I for that matter seen anyone walk on water? It would supersede natural because it is not natural for humans to be able to walk on water therefore I conclude that it is indeed supernatural or whatever label you want to assign to it but it would not be normal
Originally posted by twhiteheadDefies nature then .......physical laws ect..................
When is the last time you saw someone run 100m in under 10 seconds? The first time you see someone do that, it is clearly not normal. It is not, however, supernatural. Being not normal is not the same thing as being supernatural.
Originally posted by menace71In what way does it defy nature?
Defies nature then .......physical laws ect..................
Manny
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou must have missed reading the definition of supernatual that I posted. I will repeat it below:
In what way does it defy nature?
It cannot possibly defy physical laws, because physical laws cannot be defied by definition.
The thing is, you do not know how it is done, so how can you claim to know that it defies anything? A claim of supernatural is to claim to know how it is done, then claim that how it is done has some property that 'defies nature' that you do not want to discuss with anyone. A claim of 'supernatural' is incoherent.
Originally posted by RJHindsYou really have to follow the debate. We all know this definition. What we are debating is if this definition is correct and/or adequate. You really have to follow the debate.
You must have missed reading the definition of supernatual that I posted. I will repeat it below:
su·per·nat·u·ral
adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.
2. of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God or a deity.
3. of a superlative degr ...[text shortened]... r other unearthly beings; eerie; occult.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/supernatural
Originally posted by twhiteheadIt defies the laws of nature at minimum walking on water (not frozen) as you know this is not normal call it what you will then if not supernatural then whatever !!
In what way does it defy nature?
It cannot possibly defy physical laws, because physical laws cannot be defied by definition.
The thing is, you do not know how it is done, so how can you claim to know that it defies anything? A claim of supernatural is to claim to know how it is done, then claim that how it is done has some property that 'defies nature' that you do not want to discuss with anyone. A claim of 'supernatural' is incoherent.
Originally posted by menace71Let's take 'walking on water' (not frozen) as an example.
It defies the laws of nature at minimum walking on water (not frozen) as you know this is not normal call it what you will then if not supernatural then whatever !!
Manny
Originally posted by menace71Not normal, yes, I agree. But it cannot possibly defy the laws of nature. The laws of nature are those laws that are never, ever, ever, ever defied. If you claim they are defied then you are being incoherent.
It defies the laws of nature at minimum walking on water (not frozen) as you know this is not normal call it what you will then if not supernatural then whatever !!
Manny