"Anyone trying to persuade others to abandon their beliefs in one of Indonesia's officially recognized religions may face up to four years' imprisonment or a maximum fine of Rp 2 billion [approx. USD 140,000]."
Here Are the Most Contentious Articles in Indonesia's New Criminal Code ~ Jakarta Globe 2nd September 2019
https://tinyurl.com/y6fyakuj
A severe blow for religious freedom, agreed?
@fmf saidI agree . The new laws also make sex between 2 unmarried people punishable by prison time . Insulting the Indonesia President or vice-President is also a crime.
"Anyone trying to persuade others to abandon their beliefs in one of Indonesia's officially recognized religions may face up to four years' imprisonment or a maximum fine of Rp 2 billion [approx. USD 140,000]."
Here Are the Most Contentious Articles in Indonesia's New Criminal Code ~ Jakarta Globe 2nd September 2019
https://tinyurl.com/y6fyakuj
A severe blow for religious freedom, agreed?
Welcome back to the 7th century .
@caissad4 saidI get why you are referring to the C7th for reasons of hyperbole, but is it actually valid to do so?
The new laws also make sex between 2 unmarried people punishable by prison time . Welcome back to the 7th century .
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery
The 600s were the 600s, but what about the 1960s, the 1970s, the 1990s, the 2000s.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theweek.co.uk/62723/where-is-adultery-is-still-illegal%3famp
"Adultery laws, which make sexual acts illegalif at least one of the parties is married to someone else: Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, New York, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Utah, Virginia and Wisconsin."
https://www.salon.com/2019/05/06/adultery-and-fornication-why-are-states-rushing-to-get-these-outdated-laws-off-the-books/
@fmf saidWell, let me play Devil's advocate for a bit.
"Anyone trying to persuade others to abandon their beliefs in one of Indonesia's officially recognized religions may face up to four years' imprisonment or a maximum fine of Rp 2 billion [approx. USD 140,000]."
Here Are the Most Contentious Articles in Indonesia's New Criminal Code ~ Jakarta Globe 2nd September 2019
https://tinyurl.com/y6fyakuj
A severe blow for religious freedom, agreed?
According to https://www.learnreligions.com/religion-in-indonesia-4588353,
...the government officially recognizes six distinct faiths: Islam, Protestantism, Catholicism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Confucianism.
It seems Buddhism is vague enough to accommodate the agnostics. Per https://www.learnreligions.com/introduction-to-buddhism-449715,
...Buddhism is non-theistic. The Buddha taught that believing in gods was not useful for those seeking to realize enlightenment.
Sure, it would be preferable if one could pick whatever religious label they wanted for themselves. But this situation seems manageable; at least, it does if the state is not closely monitoring adherence to one's stated religion. [Then again, if they are checking, even those who believe themselves to be following an official religion are not necessarily safe.]
@bigdoggproblem saidThe law could arguably criminalize Buddhists who talk to adherents of other religions about how their religion accommodates their agnosticism.
It seems Buddhism is vague enough to accommodate the agnostics.
This one is cause for concern too:
Customary Law
The new criminal code acknowledges customary laws that exist in traditional communities across the archipelago. Any person violating customary laws can be taken to court and punished in accordance with the penalties demanded by such laws. The new criminal code does not list the violations considered crimes under customary laws, which has prompted observers to raise concern over the likelihood of abuse.
Some of these "violations" could be of a spiritual or religious nature and there could conceivably be hundreds of thousands of "penalties demanded" and implemented before any of them reach a constitutional court.
I think the real target here is the people attempting to proselytize to one another -- perhaps, specifically, for people trying to persuade others from abandoning Islam in any way or any form.
Islam is the majority, right, so I assume that the lawmakers were primarily Islamic and had in mind the goal to protect Islam.
So, I assume that any Christian content that is attempting to persuade Muslims to come over would be in the same boat as agnostic/atheist content.
@philokalia saidTrying to convert someone to one's religion, despite Indonesia having signed up to Article 18 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights, has been basically illegal in the this country for almost 50 years.
I think the real target here is the people attempting to proselytize to one another -- perhaps, specifically, for people trying to persuade others from abandoning Islam in any way or any form.
"Propagating Agnosticism Will Be Illegal" is extending the attack on religious freedom and appears to be creating a blunter tool with which to do it.
Oh yeah, that would be a violation of article 18.
But China sits on the UNSC and clearly violates this.
These sorts of declarations perhaps shouldn't be taken too seriously. I mean, yes, sure, it would be nice if that was the case, but these are rarely taken that seriously in countries themselves, let alone on some international scale.
Let's also remember that it was a UN resolution that created a homeland for Jewish people on flimsy grounds, effectively setting aside other people's land for the formation of a state.
Let's do ourselves a favor and not take the UN too seriously.
@philokalia saidThe UN Declaration of Human Rights has strengthened the hand of those advocating for better conditions for the citizens of Indonesia on innumerable occasions on a range of issues that are crucial to the lives of ordinary, and almost completely powerless, and otherwise defenceless people. If you want to do yourself a favour and not take the UN Declaration of Human Rights too seriously, be my guest.
Let's do ourselves a favor and not take the UN too seriously.
@fmf saidSounds interesting.
The UN Declaration of Human Rights has strengthened the hand of those advocating for better conditions for the citizens of Indonesia on innumerable occasions on a range of issues that are crucial to the lives of ordinary, and almost completely powerless, and otherwise defenceless people. If you want to do yourself a favour and not take the UN Declaration of Human Rights too seriously, be my guest.
I'd love to hear more about this!