Originally posted by galveston75

Oh my goodness!!!!

Oh your goodness !!!!
Do you think four exclamation marks will save you from your obvious error?

This is speaking of the "angels" not humans in every answer your giving.

Do you think this saves your error ? "Oh your goodness !!!!!!!!!!!!"
Oh gracious me !!!!! It makes a big difference because God said "Let all the ANGELS worship Him"

So let's see what you can do with this. Now the ANGELS are told to WORSHIP the Son but not HUMANS. Let's try that spin on Hebrews 1:6.

The same Greek word is used when in Matthew 2:11 when the maji fell down and WORSHIPPED the child Jesus.

" And they came into the house and saw the child with Mary His mother. And falling down THEY WORSHIPPED HIM ..." (Matt. 2:11)

Quick! Go find an excuse for this !!

The same word is used when a leper came and worshipped Jesus (Matt. 8:2).

" and behold, a leper, coming near WORSHIPPED Him, saying, Lord, ..." (Matt. 8:2)

The same word is used for the disciples worshipping Jesus in the boat at the incident with the storm (Matt. 14:33)

" And those who were in the boat WORSHIPPED Him, saying. Truly You are the Son of God." (Matt. 14:33)

Quick! Rush these guys off down to the kingdom hall to get straightened out!

Oh! gracious me !!!! The same word is used for a certain ruler who worshipped Jesus (Matt. 9:18).

" As He was speaking these things to them, behold, a ruler came and WORSHIPPED Him, saying, My daughter has just died ..." (Matt. 9:18)

Quick now. Rationalize that one away as well.

Same word for the Canaanite woman who worshipped Jesus (Matt. 15:25)

" But she came and WORSHIPPED Him, saying, Lord, help me! " (Matt. 15:25)

Twist that one around for us.

But all these are not during the MILLENNIUM when God has told the angels to worship the Firstborn. Right ? Does that make some big difference ?

When the maji believed that the King of the Jews was born, they prematurely thought that the Messianic age for Israel must have begun. And they came to, (you guessed it) WORSHIP Him. The same word as the angels told to do when Christ comes again.

"Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea ... behold, magi came from the east arrived in Jerusalem.

Saying, Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star at its rising and have come to WORSHIP Him." (Matt. 2:1,2)

This a preview, a foretaste of the Millennium when God brings AGAIN Christ into the inhabited earth. So the Gentiles, the nations, the saved Israelites and all the world will WORSHIP Him as well.

And you have no escape from the universal worship of the Son of God as seen also in Revelation 5.

And your saying you can take me serious? If God tells his angels to worship Jesus, that his arrangement. But this is not telling humans to worship Jesus at all.......Sorry!

Its is a sorry excuse to conceal your revolt against the Son. Where did the angel or God scold any of the worshippers of Jesus in any of the passages mentioned above?

Did Jesus rebuke the disciples for WORSHIPPING Him at His resurrection? (the same word still in Greek) (Matt. 28:9).

" And behold, Jesus met them, saying, Rejoice! And they came to Him and took hold of His feet and WORSHIPPED Him." (Matt. 28:9)

When Jesus told his followers "NOT" to worship him but "ONLY" his Father, how in the world do you not understand that and take it for exactly what it says?

In the above passage He told them to REJOICE! . He was HAPPY that they came believing and worshipping Him.

You have no case. And in spite of all your squirming Revelation 5 shows universal worship of God on the throne and the Redeemer God-man, "the Lamb".

Originally posted by sonship

Oh my goodness!!!!

Oh your goodness [b]!!!!
Do you think four exclamation marks will save you from your obvious error?

This is speaking of the "angels" not humans in every answer your giving.

Do you think this saves your error ? "Oh your goodness !!!!!!!!!!!!"
Oh gracious me !!!!! It makes ...[text shortened]... 5[/b] shows universal worship of God on the throne and the Redeemer God-man, "the Lamb".[/b]

One is always amazed when the simple Bible term of doing obeisance comes into close proximity to Jesus and magically transforms itself into an act of worship.

proskynéō (from 4314 /prós, "towards" and kyneo, "to kiss" – properly, to kiss the ground when prostrating before a superior; "to fall down/prostrate oneself to adore on one's knees" (DNTT); to "do obeisance" (BAGD).

Herodotus down; the Sept. very often for הִשְׁתַּחֲוָה (to prostrate oneself); properly, to kiss the hand to (toward) one, in token of reverence: Herodotus 1, 134; (cf. K. F. Hermann, Gottesdienstl. Alterthümer d. Griech. § 21; especially Hoelemann, Die Biblical Gestalt. d. Anbetung in his 'Bibelstudien' i., 106ff); hence, among the Orientals, especially the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence ("to make a 'salam); Latinveneror (Nepos, Conon. 3, 3),adoro (Pliny, h. n. 28, 5, 25; Suetonius, Vitell. 2); hence, in the N. T. by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication. It is used a. of homage shown to men of superior rank: absolutely, Matthew 20:20 (the Jewish high-priests are spoken of in Josephus,

Can you tell the forum why your translators have translated this simple Eastern act of salutation as worship and why in some places it simply means an act of obeisance but when it comes to Jesus it takes on rather more significance? Shall I tell you, religious bias in translation, you know it, I know it and the very stones are crying it out.

Here is the very same word in Matthew 20:20

New International Version
Then the mother of Zebedee's sons came to Jesus with her sons and, *kneeling down, asked a favor of him.

*προσκυνοῦσα (proskynousa)

what no act of worship? can you tell us why sonship? I somehow don't think your reliance on biased translation is going to help you.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
one is always amazed when the Bible term is doing obeisance a rather interesting eastern custom but when it comes into proximity to Jesus it becomes an act of worship.

proskynéō (from 4314 /prós, "towards" and kyneo, "to kiss" – properly, to kiss the ground when prostrating before a superior; "to fall down/prostrate oneself to adore on one's knees ...[text shortened]... u, religious bias in translation, you know it, I know it and the very stones are crying it out.

Your post is irrelevant if you are trying some heroic rescue of Galveston.

Entry 4314 was not being discussed at all
Entry 4352 was the focus of my post.

The word is used for the command to WORSHIP God not an angel (Revelation 22:8,9)

And the same word is in Matthew 4:10 where Jesus QUOTES Deuteronomy 6:13.

"Then Jesus said to him, Go away, Satan! For it is written, "You shall WORSHIP the Lord your God, and Him only shall you serve." (Matt. 4:10 comp Deut. 6:13)

Jesus received what Jesus told Satan must ONLY be reserved for God.
And for all the angels to be told to worship Him in His second coming means He receives what He told Satan what only God must receive according to Deut. 6:13.

The maji, though prematurely, thought that Messianic age of Israel's ascendancy must have begun because of the BIRTH of the King of the Jews.

They came to render WORSHIP. That same word used to describe what Jesus told Satan should be reserved for God. They just got in on a good thing early. That's all.

Christ will reign whether or not Galvaston or Robbie wants to worship along with the nations and the angels of God during the Firstborn's kingdom at His second coming.

Originally posted by sonship
Your post is irrelevant if you are trying some heroic rescue of Galveston.

Entry 4314 was not being discussed at all
Entry [b] 4352 was the focus of my post.

The word is used for the command to WORSHIP God not an angel (Revelation 22:8,9)

And the same word is in Matthew 4:10 where Jesus QUOTES Deuteronomy 6:13.

[quote] ...[text shortened]... long with the nations and the angels of God during the Firstborn's kingdom at His second coming.[/b]

you are floundering, explain why you have utilised an overtly biased translation which seeks to translate the simple term for bowing down, bending the knee, do obeisance and turned it into an act of worship.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

Can you tell the forum why your translators have translated this simple Eastern act of salutation as worship and why in some places it simply means an act of obeisance but when it comes to Jesus it takes on rather more significance? Shall I tell you, religious bias in translation, you know it, I know it and the very stones are crying it out.

Here is the very same word in Matthew 20:20

I can tell the Forum that for the verses I used to indicate entry # 4352 (not 4314) of Strong's Concordance was the English "worship / worshipped" I referred to.

Matthew 20:20 was not one of the verses I pointed out, was it ?

I used from Matthew - 2:11; 8:2; 9:18; 14:33; 15:25; 18:26; 28:26. And this is going on memory, give or take possibly one instance.

You tried to do two things:

1.) Strictly define worship to prejudice the mind that it could only mean one thing - one way to worship.

2.) Try to drag Matt. 20:20 into my list to erect your strawman argument.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you are floundering, explain why you have utilised an overtly biased translation which seeks to translate the simple term for bowing down, bending the knee, do obeisance and turned it into an act of worship.

No I am not floundering. You are trying to knock down your strawman.

There is no need to even go beyond Revelation 5:11-14 for even if the specific Greek word of # 4352 is not seen, the activity of adoration of all creation is worship to God on the throne and to the Lamb.

"And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea and all things in them, I heard saying,

To Him who sits upon the throne and to the LAMB ... be
the blessing
and the honor
and the glory
and the might

FOREVER and EVER." (Rev. 5:13)

Splitting hairs trying to argue that that is not worship is probably a doctrine of demons.

Originally posted by sonship
No I am not floundering. You are trying to knock down your strawman.

There is no need to even go beyond [b]Revelation 5:11-14 for even if the specific Greek word of # 4352 is not seen, the activity of adoration of all creation is worship to God on the throne and to the Lamb.

[quote] "And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and ...[text shortened]... ]

Splitting hairs trying to argue that that is not worship is probably a doctrine of demons.

more irrelevancy and slithery rhetoric.

Originally posted by sonship
[quote] Can you tell the forum why your translators have translated this simple Eastern act of salutation as worship and why in some places it simply means an act of obeisance but when it comes to Jesus it takes on rather more significance? Shall I tell you, religious bias in translation, you know it, I know it and the very stones are crying it out.

Here ...[text shortened]... to worship.

2.) Try to drag [b]Matt. 20:20 into my list to erect your strawman argument.[/b]

the words have the same route meaning, sigh

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the words have the same route meaning, sigh

I think its you're the one "slithering" away now with one liners, seeing that your trick won't work on this worshipper of Jesus Christ.

Tell us all about Revelation 5:11-14 not being worship.

"And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea and all things in them, I heard saying,

To Him who sits upon the throne and to the LAMB ... be
the blessing
and the honor
and the glory
and the might

FOREVER and EVER." (Rev. 5:13)

Down at the Jehovah's Witness hall you people are going to eliminate which part of this worship ?

No " Worthy to is the Lamb" ?
Or will it be no "To Him who sits upon the throne AND TO THE LAMB" ?

Or maybe you Jehovah's Witnesses will eliminate "FOREVER and EVER" for "God ... and the Lamb".

John's vision is concerning all creation.

So you'll say the glory is to the Old Testament Jehovah but not to the Lamb "forever and ever" also ?

Maybe you think John needed to be briefed by the "prudent servant" of the Watchtower Committee before he wrote Revelation. Sorry, Brooklyn, New York wasn't even around then, let alone JW headquarters.

Why does it say the Lord's Christ will reign forever and ever? It doesn't say the Lord's Christ will reign only a thousands years and then His reign will be terminated.

"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever." (Rev. 11:15b)

Ephesians 4:6 teaches that there is to the people of God - "ONE LORD" -

"One Lord, one faith, one baptism; ..." (Eph. 4:6)

And we have in Revelation 11:15

" ... OUR LORD and of His Christ ..."

God is triune.

You and Galveston are also corrected about the millennial kingdom because the coming millennial kingdom is not the realm of reigning angels who subject the world but the reigning Son of Man.

"For it was not to angels that He subjected the coming inhabited earth, concerning which we speak." (Heb. 2:5)

So the Firstborn coming into "the inhabited earth" again is the Son of Man. And the earth is subjected not to angels but to Him and His overcoming believers who reign with Him.

"And when He brings again the Firstborn into the inhabited earth He says And let all the angels of God worship Him."

The coming inhabited earth in the millennium is not subject to angels but to the Godman, the Firstborn Son of God and His brothers Who He is leading into glory.

"For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and through whom are all things, in leading many sons into glory, to make the Author of their salvation perfect through sufferings." (v.10)

Therefore the angels are told to worship a MAN, that is a GodMAN - Jesus Christ. And He is to reign forever and ever.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you are floundering, explain why you have utilised an overtly biased translation which seeks to translate the simple term for bowing down, bending the knee, do obeisance and turned it into an act of worship.

Speaking of overly biased translations; how about the NWT?

By the way i agree with sonship, there is nothimg as effective as Galveston75 getting himself in trouble in here, to bring you out of your leafy undergrowth. 😛

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you are floundering, explain why you have utilised an overtly biased translation which seeks to translate the simple term for bowing down, bending the knee, do obeisance and turned it into an act of worship.

Sounds like you are the one floundering.

What is worship but obeisance to one's God?

Originally posted by divegeester
Are you trying to get your own back now? 😛

Absolutely.

😏

Originally posted by Suzianne
Sounds like you are the one floundering.

What is worship but obeisance to one's God?

Why don't you look up the term or read my text it only provides the answer 🙄

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Why don't you look up the term or read my text it only provides the answer 🙄

That's not good for your eyes.

And twisting away the Bible to make cold your love and adoring worship of the Son of God is not good for your spiritual being.

Paul says if anyone has no love for the Lord let him be anathema (accursed).
At the end of the long First Corinthian epistle -

" If anyone does not love the Lord, let him be accursed! The Lord come!" (1 Cor. 16:23)

But he says grace will be with those who love the Lord Jesus Christ in incorruption at the end of Ephesians.

"Grace be with all those who love our Lord Jesus Christ in incorruptibility." (Eph. 6:24)

Do you want to perish forever in corruption?
Then you must repent to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Join all creation in worshipping God and the Lamb as John saw in his revelation (Revelation 5:11-14).

But if you don't love the Lord and say you cannot bring yourself under the Lord Jesus Christ to adore Him, why not confess to God that Jesus LOVES YOU.

Keep confessing to Jehovah that Jesus loves you, that He does love you, that He has and does love you. I think soon then that love will reflect and you will begin to shed the Russellite rebellion against the Son of God. And by admitting to the Holy Spirit that Christ loves YOU, you may soon begin to love Him.

" ... the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (See Gal. 2:20)