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Originally posted by whodeyyes many people are their own 'gods'.
This is my take on why the term "gods" Is used.
Genesis 3:5 Satan tells Adam and Eve this, "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
In short, they became their own moral agents.
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Originally posted by whodeyBut isn't it good that every human is their own moral agent?
This is my take on why the term "gods" Is used.
Genesis 3:5 Satan tells Adam and Eve this, "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
In short, they became their own moral agents.
I thought Christians believed that God created humans to be free moral agents.
If moral agency is a person's capacity to make morally sound decisions based on concepts of right and wrong and then to take responsibility for these decisions and actions, isn't people doing exactly this - and thus being "their own moral agents" - a good thing?
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Originally posted by FMFsorry slinky your self assumptions and the arguments which you build on those assumptions are not my concern. Do you have anything that is not self assuming?
This is not much in the way of an analysis of the human condition though, is it ~ assuming that's what you intended the quip to be ~ as it's an 'allegation' that is entirely pejorative.
The idea as espoused by whodey and confirmed by myself is not new nor is it difficult to understand. Let me explain it to you so that there can be no doubt.
Normally for the Christian morality springs from an interpretation of Gods revealed will as perceived in scripture. The morality is therefore deemed to originate with God. When a person with no recourse to anything but his own moral standards makes moral judgements entirely independently from God, they have infact superseded Gods moral standards and supplanted their own, in effect making themselves their own god. I don't know why you think this is a quip, pejorative or anything else. Perhaps if you were not so self assuming, who can say?
Originally posted by FMFWe are under duress therefore to ask, upon what is this concept of right and wrong built? and what shall you answer?
But isn't it good that every human is their own moral agent?
I thought Christians believed that God created humans to be free moral agents.
If moral agency is a person's capacity to make morally sound decisions based on concepts of right and wrong and then to take responsibility for these decisions and actions, isn't people doing exactly this - and thus being "their own moral agents" - a good thing?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI think it's partly instinctive (nature) - and a product of human evolution and our social nature - and partly inculcated in us through socialization (nurture) as well as being constantly tweaked by experience and context. With the latter - nurture - the adoption of notions of right and wrong for many people is achieved, at least in part, by internalizing religious dogma.
We are under duress therefore to ask, upon what is this concept of right and wrong built? and what shall you answer?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYes, I think the "making themselves their own god" catchphrase is offered merely as a bit of cop out hyperbole - and essentially pejorative - instead of a genuine attempt to discuss anything.
...they have infact superseded Gods moral standards and supplanted their own, in effect making themselves their own god. I don't know why you think this is a quip, pejorative or anything else.
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Originally posted by FMFBut Adam and Eve were free to be their own moral agents before the fall, were they not?
But isn't it good that every human is their own moral agent?
I thought Christians believed that God created humans to be free moral agents.
If moral agency is a person's capacity to make morally sound decisions based on concepts of right and wrong and then to take responsibility for these decisions and actions, isn't people doing exactly this - and thus being "their own moral agents" - a good thing?
Once they fell, they became their own god and followed what they thought was right rather than God.
"All we like sheep have gone astray, each has turned to his own ways"
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIf you behave in a morally sound way as a result of your subjective decision to subscribe to ancient Hebrew mythology (and its offshoot religion) then good for you. I welcome any morally sound behaviour that you engage in.
The morality is therefore deemed to originate with God. When a person with no recourse to anything but his own moral standards makes moral judgements entirely independently from God, they have infact superseded Gods moral standards and supplanted their own...
Originally posted by whodeyI'm not sure you know what being a moral agent means. Do you think that people shouldn't be moral agents?
But Adam and Eve were free to be their own moral agents before the fall, were they not?
Once they fell, they became their own god and followed what they thought was right rather than God.
"All we like sheep have gone astray, each has turned to his own ways"
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Originally posted by FMFInstinct as opposed to reason. The evolutionary hypothesis dictates that the fittest outstrip the weakest and you want that to form a basis for your morality, ouch. Socialization you mean the shifting sands of social convention, whats morally fashionable? experience, you mean your own limited human experience, prone to aberration, imperfect. Yes indeed when it all comes down to it, we are left with vague references to vague concepts which produce a muddy moral ambiguity which might be termed a moral morass.
I think it's partly instinctive (nature) - and a product of human evolution and our social nature - and partly inculcated in us through socialization (nurture) as well as being constantly tweaked by experience and context. With the latter - nurture - the adoption of notions of right and wrong for many people is achieved, at least in part, by internalizing religious dogma.
If the light that is in you is really darkness, how great that darkness is! - Matthew 6:23
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Originally posted by FMFmorally sound according to you, thankyou for illustrating the point.
If you behave in a morally sound way as a result of your subjective decision to subscribe to ancient Hebrew mythology (and its offshoot religion) then good for you. I welcome any morally sound behaviour that you engage in.
