Question for any Nominal Christian

Originally posted by Rajk999
The physical bodies of all dead humans are in the grave. Their spirit or life has gone back to God. What God has done with them [the life force or spirit] is not clearly explained in the Bible. We could speculate about hell and suffering and Abrahams bosom and wherever, but it would still all be speculation. There are many non-inspired writings which have l ...[text shortened]... ion Enoch, Elijah did not die according to the Bible. There could be others. Where did they go ?

Here's a thought:

“God Took Him”
Enoch was apparently in mortal danger when “God took him.” (Genesis 5:24) Jehovah did not allow his faithful prophet to suffer at the hands of rabid enemies. According to the apostle Paul, “Enoch was transferred so as not to see death.” (Hebrews 11:5) Many say that Enoch did not die—that God took him to heaven, where he kept on living. However, Jesus plainly stated: “No man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.” Jesus was the “forerunner” of all who ascend to heaven.—John 3:13; Hebrews 6:19, 20.

So, what happened to Enoch? His being “transferred so as not to see death” may mean that God put him in a prophetic trance and then terminated his life while he was in that state. Under such circumstances, Enoch would not experience the pangs of death. Then “he was nowhere to be found,” apparently because Jehovah disposed of his body, even as he disposed of Moses’ body.—Deuteronomy 34:5, 6.



To Which Heavens Did Elijah Ascend?
IT CAME about that as [Elijah and Elisha] were walking along, speaking as they walked, why, look! a fiery war chariot and fiery horses, and they proceeded to make a separation between them both; and Elijah went ascending in the windstorm to the heavens.”—2 Kings 2:11.
What is meant by the word “heavens” in this case? The term sometimes applies to the spiritual dwelling place of God and his angelic sons. (Matthew 6:9; 18:10) “Heavens” may also denote the physical universe. (Deuteronomy 4:19) And the Bible uses this term to refer to earth’s immediate atmosphere, where birds fly and winds blow.—Psalm 78:26; Matthew 6:26.
To which of these heavens did the prophet Elijah ascend? Evidently, he was transferred through earth’s atmosphere and placed on a different part of the globe. Elijah was still on earth years later, for he wrote a letter to King Jehoram of Judah. (2 Chronicles 21:1, 12-15) That Elijah did not ascend to the spiritual abode of Jehovah God was later confirmed by Jesus Christ, who declared: “No man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man,” that is, Jesus himself. (John 3:13) The way to heavenly life was first opened up to imperfect humans after the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ.—John 14:2, 3; Hebrews 9:24; 10:19, 20.

Originally posted by galveston75

Enoch was apparently in mortal danger when “God took him.” (Genesis 5:24) Jehovah did not allow his faithful prophet to suffer at the hands of rabid enemies.

Enoch was in mortal danger?

Do you have a reference for that?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Enoch was in mortal danger?

Do you have a reference for that?

From one of our school talks, 2003.

Prophecy Against the Ungodly
"Maintaining high standards is hard enough when we are surrounded by ungodly people. But Enoch also delivered an uncompromising message of judgment against the wicked. Directed by God’s spirit, Enoch prophetically declared: “Look! Jehovah came with his holy myriads, to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly concerning all their ungodly deeds that they did in an ungodly way, and concerning all the shocking things that ungodly sinners spoke against him.”—Jude 14, 15.
What effect would that message have on perverse nonbelievers? It is reasonable to suppose that such stinging words made Enoch unpopular, perhaps eliciting jeers, taunts, and threats. Some must have wanted to silence him for good. However, Enoch was not intimidated. He knew what had happened to righteous Abel, and like him, Enoch was determined to serve God, come what may."

So apparently Jehovah knew the people around him were evil and were not doubt not happy with what Enoch was telling them, and knew in advance that they would have eventually taken his life and probably in a terrible way.
This again was the time before the flood and things were so bad we know God finally had to destroy them all. Plus the materialzed angels or demons were there and would have made it very bad for Enoch.

Originally posted by galveston75
Correct knowledge means life.

SO being a J-Dub means life?

Originally posted by menace71
SO being a J-Dub means life?

taking in knowledge of Jesus Christ does, or have you never read,

(John 17:3) . . .This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only
true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

therefore your assertion, why does it matter, is quite a worrying scenario, for clearly
taking in Biblical knowledge is paramount for gaining everlasting life, that's why paying
attention and understanding the words of Jesus, matter.

Originally posted by galveston75
From one of our school talks, 2003.

Prophecy Against the Ungodly
"Maintaining high standards is hard enough when we are surrounded by ungodly people. But Enoch also delivered an uncompromising message of judgment against the wicked. Directed by God’s spirit, Enoch prophetically declared: “Look! Jehovah came with h ...[text shortened]... l. Plus the materialzed angels or demons were there and would have made it very bad for Enoch.

It is useful to understand what part of your analysis is factual per the Bible account and what part is speculation.

Your account from Jude is factual per the Bible.

The speculation starts with your words .. " .. It is reasonable to suppose that .."

You may be right as well as you may be wrong.

So Enoch may have been in mortal danger or he may NOT have been in mortal danger. We do not know.

Originally posted by Rajk999
It is useful to understand what part of your analysis is factual per the Bible account and what part is speculation.

Your account from Jude is factual per the Bible.

The speculation starts with your words .. " .. It is reasonable to suppose that .."

You may be right as well as you may be wrong.

So Enoch may have been in mortal danger or he may NOT have been in mortal danger. We do not know.

True we don't know it is a fact as the Bible does not say that word for word but considering the world at that time and the general attitude which was very bad as it was not too many decades after Enoch lived on earth that God destroyed all life except for Noah and his family. The bad that caused this action by God did not just start a few years before the flood but had been building for hundreds of years.
And for God to "Take" Enoch in the manor that he did had to be for a reason and that is because of his love for him and he did not want Enoch to die a death that no doubt would have been terrible and from the ones he had been preaching too.
If his life was not in danger then why did God take this unusual action?
I think it would be very safe to conclude that his life had to be in danger in a serious way.

Originally posted by menace71
SO being a J-Dub means life?

Well attaining this knowledge of the Bible would help you decide whether the JW's or any other religion is the one God approves. But to think it isn't important could be deadly for you....

Originally posted by galveston75
True we don't know it is a fact as the Bible does not say that word for word but considering the world at that time and the general attitude which was very bad as it was not too many decades after Enoch lived on earth that God destroyed all life except for Noah and his family. The bad that caused this action by God did not just start a few years before t ...[text shortened]... I think it would be very safe to conclude that his life had to be in danger in a serious way.

Again, for your own personal spiritual development, understand what FACTS are written in the Bible as opposed to what ASSUMPTIONS you make in order to arrive at certain CONCLUSIONS, which may or may not be right.

For me pesonally, I take what the Bible says clearly. I dont need to add anything to arrive at any conclusions.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Again, for your own personal spiritual development, understand what FACTS are written in the Bible as opposed to what ASSUMPTIONS you make in order to arrive at certain CONCLUSIONS, which may or may not be right.

For me pesonally, I take what the Bible says clearly. I dont need to add anything to arrive at any conclusions.

Then why did God take this unusual action? If you just stick to the black and white facts, then why this action?

Originally posted by galveston75
Then why did God take this unusual action? If you just stick to the black and white facts, then why this action?

Well the first thing I noticed is that you acknowledge that you are not sticking to black and white facts. You know that you are speculating.

Do I need to tell you about all the misleading doctrines which people propagate and its all because of speculating and not sticking to facts...
- Triune God and Trinity
- Once saved always saved or Eternally Saved
- Baptism = Regeneration or Holy Spirit Gifts ???

You know exactly what happens. Why allow the same thing to happen to you?

The answer to your question about why God took that unusual action ..

" We do not know and we do not need to know."

Originally posted by Rajk999
Well the first thing I noticed is that you acknowledge that you are not sticking to black and white facts. You know that you are speculating.

Do I need to tell you about all the misleading doctrines which people propagate and its all because of speculating and not sticking to facts...
- Triune God and Trinity
- Once saved always saved or Eternally Sav ...[text shortened]... ut why God took that unusual action ..

[b]" We do not know and we do not need to know."[/b]

Well that's your viewpoint and that's fine. No problem there but I find this account fascinating and I agree with the overwhelming facts of that time that the bible is clear on that things we so extremely bad that God had to do this to keep this servant that he loved from seeing a terrible death and to eventually destroy all those ungodly men of that time. It could have only been for this reason that God did this for Enoch. That is our opinion and that's fine.

Originally posted by galveston75
Well that's your viewpoint and that's fine. No problem there but I find this account fascinating and I agree with the overwhelming facts of that time that the bible is clear on that things we so extremely bad that God had to do this to keep this servant that he loved from seeing a terrible death and to eventually destroy all those ungodly men of that tim ...[text shortened]... e only been for this reason that God did this for Enoch. That is our opinion and that's fine.

Exactly.. state your beliefs as an OPINION and state what the Bible says as FACTS. If everyone did that there would be no argument.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Exactly.. state your beliefs as an OPINION and state what the Bible says as FACTS. If everyone did that there would be no argument.

I don't think this is an arguement, just a discussion...

Originally posted by galveston75
I don't think this is an arguement, just a discussion...

Whether argument or discussion, if everyone could have identified what are facts from the Bible and what are opinions resulting from speculation, I bet we would all realize that our core beliefs are very similar.