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    23 Feb '07 16:22
    Originally posted by stocken
    Are you saying that nothing is immoral, that you don't know what immoral is,
    or that we can't know what is immoral?
    No. I am asking Doc Scribbs what he assumes to be immoral or rather how something would be judged to be immoral within the framework of his question.
  2. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    23 Feb '07 17:01
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    When is something judged to be immoral?
    You introduced the term, not me. Let's use whatever meaning you had in mind.

    Would God ever command somebody to do something immoral?
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    23 Feb '07 18:04
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    No. I am asking Doc Scribbs what he assumes to be immoral or rather how something would be judged to be immoral within the framework of his question.
    No, you evaded his question. You (as a Christian) would have to assume
    that God is the judge of what is immoral and not. Since God speaks to you
    through the bible, you'd have to assume that the bible clearly states what is
    immoral and not. Now, you can answer his question if God would ever
    command someone to do something immoral.
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    23 Feb '07 20:54
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    You introduced the term, not me. Let's use whatever meaning you had in mind.

    Would God ever command somebody to do something immoral?
    Something which is immoral for whom? Your question is not clear. I need clarity on whether your term 'immoral' applies to all people?
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    23 Feb '07 20:56
    Originally posted by stocken
    No, you evaded his question. You (as a Christian) would have to assume
    that God is the judge of what is immoral and not. Since God speaks to you
    through the bible, you'd have to assume that the bible clearly states what is
    immoral and not. Now, you can answer his question if God would ever
    command someone to do something immoral.
    I need to know if he is asking the question within the Christian framework of a sovereign God.
  6. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    23 Feb '07 21:051 edit
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    I need to know if he is asking the question within the Christian framework of a sovereign God.
    Why is that relevant if morality is not relative?

    You claim that morality is absolute. Under your notion of such absolute morality, would God ever command somebody to do something immoral?
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    23 Feb '07 21:332 edits
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Why is that relevant if morality is not relative?

    You claim that morality is absolute. Under your notion of such absolute morality, would God ever command somebody to do something immoral?
    If morality is absolute, it means that God in His Soverignity is the judge as to what is moral and what is immoral.

    Why do you ask such "an ignorant and simple-minded person" as you put it, such a question? 😛

    That aside.

    Since God is the provider and sustainer of life in the first place I would say He has the right to take away which he has given at any time and any place according to His Sovereign will. He may even for that matter command people to wipe out nations in order to excercise his judgement upon those who have rejected His moral law. We as onlookers might behold an action of God as immoral according to our own opinion, but then again, we do not see the whole picture as He does. All we can know for sure is that everything works together for good for those that love Him and keep His commandments. The absolute standards that God has set out for us in His commandments are all we need to worry about. The way that God chooses to excercise his judgement upon the breakers of his moral law is really of little concern.
  8. Joined
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    23 Feb '07 22:23
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    If morality is absolute, it means that God in His Soverignity is the judge as to what is moral and what is immoral.

    Why do you ask such "an ignorant and simple-minded person" as you put it, such a question? 😛

    That aside.

    Since God is the provider and sustainer of life in the first place I would say He has the right to take away which he has giv ...[text shortened]... ses to excercise his judgement upon the breakers of his moral law is really of little concern.
    "He may even for that matter command people to wipe out nations in order to excercise his judgement upon those who have rejected His moral law".

    What a bunch of craps! I suppose he commanded Osama to blow up the towers to kill thousands of people. Judgement upon those who have rejected His moral law? What about those who have had no opportunity to accept nor reject, like all those unborn infants who died together with their mothers in the flood? God has no absolute moral law. If there is indeed a god (of the bible), he just amuses himself with setting restrictions upon us so that he can enjoy seeing us fail. If he can break his own law, so can we. If you want people to respect you, then you must behave respectably.


    The way that God chooses to excercise his judgement upon the breakers of his moral law is really of little concern.

    Well, this may come as a surprise to you, but quite a fair number of us are concerned with a trigger-happy god who would commit murder on a grand scale. Maybe--just maybe--I wouldn't be so upset if he kill off all the rapists or serial killers on a grand scale. He can be selective since he can do anything as you claim? But no, he just simply flood the whole world and killed everyone except for a few dumbos.

    No, I'm afraind your absolute authority on morality is no good. We are not all dumb like you who would accept without justification this ridiculous 'law' just because a conceited mighty being says it is absolute. If god commands you to kill someone, would you do it? I wouldn't if there is no good justification for it, even if it means I'll be punished for disobidience. I'll take my chances. But I suppose you would obey without question, right? The rest of us, thankfully, have brains.
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    23 Feb '07 22:44
    Originally posted by ckoh1965
    [b]"He may even for that matter command people to wipe out nations in order to excercise his judgement upon those who have rejected His moral law".

    What a bunch of craps! I suppose he commanded Osama to blow up the towers to kill thousands of people. Judgement upon those who have rejected His moral law? What about those who have ...[text shortened]... uppose you would obey without question, right? The rest of us, thankfully, have brains.[/b]
    You are welcome to reject the absolute laws of God. Go ahead and break every one of them. We'll see if you survive for a year...

    God's laws are actually for your own protection.
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    23 Feb '07 22:54
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    You are welcome to reject the absolute laws of God. Go ahead and break every one of them. We'll see if you survive for a year...

    God's laws are actually for your own protection.
    You are welcome to reject the absolute laws of God. Go ahead and break every one of them. We'll see if you survive for a year...

    I'll be 42 years old soon. I've been rejecting the 'absolute laws of God' since over 30 years ago. Today I'm still very much alive. I don't claim to be able to see the future--I might get knocked down by a car this very day--but I have confidence that I'll make that year...


    God's laws are actually for your own protection.

    Hmm... sounds like that great bully when I was in school. I had to sacrifice $1 each week for his protection. Oh how I hated those days when you just have to obey someone who has power over you. But the funny thing was that I saw him on the news a couple of years ago. He grew up to be a criminal, and then was shot dead by the police in a gunfight. What can I say, there are some good things happenning in life.
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    23 Feb '07 23:04
    Originally posted by ckoh1965
    [b]You are welcome to reject the absolute laws of God. Go ahead and break every one of them. We'll see if you survive for a year...

    I'll be 42 years old soon. I've been rejecting the 'absolute laws of God' since over 30 years ago. Today I'm still very much alive. I don't claim to be able to see the future--I might get knocked down by a car this very ...[text shortened]... he police in a gunfight. What can I say, there are some good things happenning in life.[/b]
    I you had rejected all the laws of God you would be sitting in jail now, believe me.

    The fact that your life is spared is God's mercy upon you.
  12. Joined
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    23 Feb '07 23:17
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    I you had rejected all the laws of God you would be sitting in jail now, believe me.

    The fact that your life is spared is God's mercy upon you.
    I you had rejected all the laws of God you would be sitting in jail now, believe me.

    Nah... I'm not sitting in jail now because I've been obeying the laws of my country.


    The fact that your life is spared is God's mercy upon you.

    Oh I love this particular one. If you face hardship, it's because god's testing you (you will get your rewards in heaven). If you face no hardship, it's because of God's mercy upon you.
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    26 Feb '07 22:391 edit
    Originally posted by ckoh1965
    [b]I you had rejected all the laws of God you would be sitting in jail now, believe me.

    Nah... I'm not sitting in jail now because I've been obeying the laws of my country.


    The fact that your life is spared is God's mercy upon you.

    Oh I love this particular one. If you face hardship, it's because god's testing you (you will get your rewards in heaven). If you face no hardship, it's because of God's mercy upon you.[/b]
    test - 1, 2, 3
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