1. Standard memberCalJust
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    22 Aug '11 11:541 edit
    Both of you hold very strong views and firmly believe that your view is the correct one. It follows that those who do not, are wrong/deluded/unsaved/heathen/infidel/immature etc etc; even cheating liars!

    Most of the threads on this forum are about a particular view on some aspect of a belief system . Because views are so ingrained, there is little room for compromise or learning. Therefore, I would like to hold a discussion on PROCESS rather than CONTENT. In other words, please do not refer to any specific tenet or belief that you hold, but only how you got there .

    I postulate that you came by your current belief in one of two ways, i.e.:

    POSITION 1: I was born in this box

    If this is your position, then you might describe your experience in one or more of the following ways:
    1.1 I was fed my current belief with my mother’s milk.
    1.2 I cannot remember ever not believing what I do now.
    1.3 It may have varied a little over time, and I have become more mature.
    1.4 At some stage I went through a formal ritual (initiation, baptism, circumcision, etc) that sealed my acceptance of this belief system.

    POSITION 2: I climbed into this box on my own!

    2.1 There came a day when I had a “Damascus Road “ experience that changed my life totally. This came about:
    2.1.1 All by myself through sudden insight/revelation/spiritual experience
    2.1.2 Through long years of hard study and serious questioning
    2.1.3 With the help of a preacher/teacher/shaman/friend/acquaintance

    2.2 I cannot tell exactly when and how I changed my point of view concerning Faith; all I know is that I no longer subscribe to the beliefs of my youth.

    2.3 Over time, I climbed in and out of various boxes. The box I now find myself in:
    2.3.1 fits me like a glove, and I am finally “at home”
    2.3.2 may not even be the final one, I still keep searching for the truth.

    Here is my question:
    If you want others to validate your position and credit you with some intelligence on the choices that you have made, and the journey that you have taken, don’t you think that a little humility, charity and tolerance, concerning the boxes which others find themselves in, would not be totally out of place?

    In peace
    CJ
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
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    22 Aug '11 17:02
    Originally posted by CalJust
    Both of you hold very strong views and firmly believe that your view is the correct one. It follows that those who do not, are wrong/deluded/unsaved/heathen/infidel/immature etc etc; even cheating liars!

    Most of the threads on this forum are about a particular view on some aspect of a belief system . Because views are so ingrained, there is ...[text shortened]... s which [b]others
    find themselves in, would not be totally out of place?[/i]

    In peace
    CJ[/b]
    As a Christian, I am free. I am not confined in any box.
  3. St. Peter's
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    22 Aug '11 17:27
    Originally posted by CalJust
    Both of you hold very strong views and firmly believe that your view is the correct one. It follows that those who do not, are wrong/deluded/unsaved/heathen/infidel/immature etc etc; even cheating liars!

    Most of the threads on this forum are about a particular view on some aspect of a belief system . Because views are so ingrained, there is ...[text shortened]... s which [b]others
    find themselves in, would not be totally out of place?[/i]

    In peace
    CJ[/b]
    I predict this thread will end poorly after much "No I'm right you're wrong" type posts. Good luck though.
  4. Standard memberDasa
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    22 Aug '11 19:47
    Atheism is a choice made by dishonest people.

    They are dishonest with themselves.

    They see the cosmos and the complexity of life and conclude all has come about by random unguided chance.

    The world is full of false religions ( Islam, Christianity, Judaism) compiled by men of questionable character who are not pure and are devoid of true knowledge.

    The Vedas are eternal and have been with mankind from the beginning of this universal manifestation and are coming from the Supreme Personality of Godhead and they teach the eternal religion of love of God..

    The game chess that you are playing right now is from the Vedas and without the Vedas chess would not exist.

    Veda means knowledge and the Veda presents knowledge of the spiritual and the material.

    Having chosen atheism you are dishonest.

    Being dishonest you are not qualified to ask any questions.

    When you can muster up some honesty and humility you may enquire about true religion........ and not before.
  5. Subscribersonhouse
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    22 Aug '11 21:001 edit
    Originally posted by Dasa
    Atheism is a choice made by dishonest people.

    They are dishonest with themselves.

    They see the cosmos and the complexity of life and conclude all has come about by random unguided chance.

    The world is full of false religions ( Islam, Christianity, Judaism) compiled by men of questionable character who are not pure and are devoid of true knowledge.

    T ...[text shortened]... muster up some honesty and humility you may enquire about true religion........ and not before.
    Tell me this honestly: Did your masters in the Brisbane temple tell you to infiltrate Red Hot Pawn with the express purpose of disrupting religious debate here, Vishavhetu?
  6. Joined
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    22 Aug '11 21:07
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Vishavhetu?
    Carlsberg don't make trolls...
  7. SubscriberProper Knob
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    22 Aug '11 22:12
    Originally posted by Dasa
    Atheism is a choice made by dishonest people.

    They are dishonest with themselves.

    They see the cosmos and the complexity of life and conclude all has come about by random unguided chance.

    The world is full of false religions ( Islam, Christianity, Judaism) compiled by men of questionable character who are not pure and are devoid of true knowledge.

    T ...[text shortened]... muster up some honesty and humility you may enquire about true religion........ and not before.
    If atheists are dishonest and followers of 'false religions' are devoid of 'true knowledege', what exactly do you hope to achieve on this forum?!
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    22 Aug '11 22:21
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    If atheists are dishonest and followers of 'false religions' are devoid of 'true knowledege', what exactly do you hope to achieve on this forum?!
    What does a troll hope to achieve?

    Yes. Disruption. Nothing else.

    I cannot count the number of threads here which had good discussion going until disrupted by this serpent.
  9. Standard memberDasa
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    22 Aug '11 23:05
    False science arguing with false religion and not caring the least in truth.

    I am coming between to present what is true.

    Of course the dishonest persons will be interrupted in their folly but the need is important.

    What is sad is that even though these dishonest persons know they are dishonest they still shamelessly defend their absurdity.

    On one side we have persons of false religion telling us that dead bodies will jump from the grave..............and on the other side we have false science telling us that the universe and conscious life was a random accident.

    The folly of it all by dishonest people.

    Get this through your thick skulls.

    You cannot have a discussion where honesty is disregarded.
  10. Standard memberRJHinds
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    23 Aug '11 01:31
    Originally posted by Dasa
    False science arguing with false religion and not caring the least in truth.

    I am coming between to present what is true.

    Of course the dishonest persons will be interrupted in their folly but the need is important.

    What is sad is that even though these dishonest persons know they are dishonest they still shamelessly defend their absurdity.

    On one s ...[text shortened]... et this through your thick skulls.

    You cannot have a discussion where honesty is disregarded.
    You say souls jump out of bodies that die and waits around for a few
    minutes for another body to be born or hatched and then jumps into
    it. This process keeps repeating itself over and over.

    How is this anymore reasonable and honest and less absurd since you
    provide no proof at all and don't even attempt to do so. At least science
    tries to provide proof and Christianity provides many proofs that those,
    like you, who do not wish to believe, will not accept.
  11. Subscribersonhouse
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    23 Aug '11 02:07
    Originally posted by Dasa
    False science arguing with false religion and not caring the least in truth.

    I am coming between to present what is true.

    Of course the dishonest persons will be interrupted in their folly but the need is important.

    What is sad is that even though these dishonest persons know they are dishonest they still shamelessly defend their absurdity.

    On one s ...[text shortened]... et this through your thick skulls.

    You cannot have a discussion where honesty is disregarded.
    Why can't you give a straight and honest answer to my question?

    You claim to be honest. Prove it.
  12. Standard memberusmc7257
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    23 Aug '11 02:12
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You say souls jump out of bodies that die and waits around for a few
    minutes for another body to be born or hatched and then jumps into
    it. This process keeps repeating itself over and over.

    How is this anymore reasonable and honest and less absurd since you
    provide no proof at all and don't even attempt to do so. At least science
    tries to provide p ...[text shortened]... ianity provides many proofs that those,
    like you, who do not wish to believe, will not accept.
    For once I agree with you.
    Reveal Hidden Content
    exept for the part about christianity providing any significant proof
  13. Standard membermenace71
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    23 Aug '11 03:47
    Originally posted by CalJust
    Both of you hold very strong views and firmly believe that your view is the correct one. It follows that those who do not, are wrong/deluded/unsaved/heathen/infidel/immature etc etc; even cheating liars!

    Most of the threads on this forum are about a particular view on some aspect of a belief system . Because views are so ingrained, there is ...[text shortened]... s which [b]others
    find themselves in, would not be totally out of place?[/i]

    In peace
    CJ[/b]
    2 1.3

    I always believed in a god so to speak. I think several factors play into this however.
    My mom was Catholic and my neighbors being "Born again" Christians helped influence me to that point. A preacher invited me to come to Christ and I admit I feared going to hell. I don't really fear going to hell anymore though. Possibly being born into the Western world might be a factor also. I struggled intellectually with being a Christian early on. How it conflicted with the world view I was taught in high school caused me to question if being a Christian was right? I for lack of a better word call myself a backslidden Christian. I question a lot and I'm skeptical of organized religion in any fashion these days. I don't attend Church anymore and I struggle with that. I struggle with Christians being judgmental towards others when they should be the most welcoming of all. However in someways I feel closer to God than ever and I desire now just to know God more than ever.

    Manny
  14. Standard memberDasa
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    23 Aug '11 03:521 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You say souls jump out of bodies that die and waits around for a few
    minutes for another body to be born or hatched and then jumps into
    it. This process keeps repeating itself over and over.

    How is this anymore reasonable and honest and less absurd since you
    provide no proof at all and don't even attempt to do so. At least science
    tries to provide p ...[text shortened]... ianity provides many proofs that those,
    like you, who do not wish to believe, will not accept.
    Show me one dead rotting body that has jumped from the grave.

    The soul is in your body right now.

    How did it get their?

    When you have that answer then you have your answer how it continues as well.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    23 Aug '11 05:21
    Originally posted by Dasa
    Show me one dead rotting body that has jumped from the grave.

    The soul is in your body right now.

    How did it get their?

    When you have that answer then you have your answer how it continues as well.
    But apparently you have no answer or proof of your belief, for if you
    do you are not willing to share any. So you just think we will believe
    what you say on your say so alone?
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